Pope begins Bible-reading on TV THIS WEEK

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PostSun Oct 26, 2008 1:44 am » by Hannibul


Flavius Josephus, Tacitus ,Thallus and Pliny the Younger .. Non-biblical accounts.
My criteria, real historical reference.
John 10:30 "I and the father are one."
this is where the jews wanted to stone him to death for saying (he) they were the same. jesus and god . not to mention the trinity.. which is the whole point of the thing. On said point (
Trinity= Father +Son+Holy Spirit = Same person) it is the entire principle on which your belief system is based is it not? The faith based belief that God (nothing less could completely erase sin, but the sacrifice of God incarnate, i.e. Jesus) and thus restore our relationship to the Divine Father, who himself came down to sacrifice Himself for you, in the form of Jesus, and who said to His disciples, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:9)." Also, "and behold I am sending forth the promise of my Father, upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on High (Luke 24:49)." When you realize, Jesus is obviously talking about the Holy Spirit, you can't refute that would be what Paul meant when he said in conclusion to the believers in Corinth, " The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."

Denying the Trinity is denying your entire belief system, because without it Jesus' sacrifice is insufficient to purify the sin from the world (or His Chosen) to re-unite them with God the Father....unless of course they are one. Which is why, I will mention again, Jesus said, "I and the Father are one."

point one, hannibul.> besides you obviously are missing the chain of thought i was putting across but, no surprise.
interpreting the bible historically can be healthy, interpreting history biblically, erroneous.

check out Bible unearthed, by Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, a contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine. it isn't dealing with jesus, but is a good example of my last comment.
there are a few good bbc documentries by Robert Beckford. which can be enjoyably informing...oh wait let me add a emote. :owned: :look: :sunny:

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PostMon Oct 27, 2008 1:28 am » by AVIator


drjones wrote:Well i am far from convinced...
would a loving creator make our lives on this Earth so treacherous...i dont think so...i think obviously we are corruptable in todays modern age more than ever but like i have said before i do believe in a universal force that created everything but the REAL TRUTH to this has been lost through the ages especially with all the crazy media and newspapers we now got.Good vs Evil certainly exists-ying and yang,but they are forces,ie-the devil isnt a guy with horns and a tail and stokes the fires of hell and god isnt a guy in the sky with a white beard....anyways it is complex and controversial the subject of religion....but i dont believe any of it in terms of what we know today.Hey if i'm wrong i'm wrong-i'll goto hell then wont i,my loving creator will send me to hell for having thoughts :|

Peace for all mankind :flop:


Your points are all very valid drjones. The part about ''my loving creator will send me to hell for having thoughts'' particularly brought a smile to my face! It's true that many people have an idea of God as some old guy with a white beard and the devil with horns, often these images which are only supposed to be figurative are taken to be the reality. For instance, Satan, the devil, is a fallen angel. But angels aren't actually people with wings. That is just how we represent them and how they represent themselves to us in this realm, but in reality they are purely spiritual beings they don't look like us and they don't require wings. And your concept of a creator force is basically what Christians (at least I speak for Catholics and other mainstream Christian denominations) believe. In fact, your notion is spot-on, minus the ''revealed'' details that we have in the Christian faith. You will notice that there are many similarities between the world religions. This is no coincidence, in fact the Catholic Church teaches that there are ''elements'' of truth in all world religions. But the difference with Christianity, is that on top of where man is able to arrive in respect to his imperfect knowledge of the Divine, with the advent of Christ something radical in history took place: God stepped down into our own history, to reveal what by ourselves we could never have arrived at, that is, that God, this creator force/being is not just some distant/impersonal being but wants us to know Him intimately. I understand completely how one can come to the conclusion that ''religion is the opium of the masses'' (karl Marx) but I think that attitude is the result of a failure to understand God himself. If your point of reference for examining religion is the person, than your analysis will only be half complete, like studying a human heart without the rest of the person, it serves no purpose without reference to the human body. It's true that humans have need of religion and that's not wrong. There is a natural religiosity in man, and it has manifested itself for thousands of years (there are no instances of atheistic cultures, it is a modern phenomenon). St. Augustine of Hippo (who has quite an interesting story if you ever get the chance to read his autobiography, '' Confessions'' free download at http://www.catholicspiritualdirection.o ... essionspdf) wrote, ''You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in you."
''God is Love'' is not some wishy washy feel good slogan, but a profound revelation. Love is not a human invention, but existed before us in the Triune God, it is His very essence, and He wants to share that with us. That is what Christianity is about. If I had to describe Christianity, I would say it is a meeting with a person, that person is Jesus, and it is He who reveals to us the meaning of life - love - it is where we came from both on a physical level and a metaphysical level, what sustains us and it is where we are going, and it is all that should be in between. Like you said, drjones, we are much more easily corrupted these days. The work of the Christian is to purify his love that he may see more clearly and be more open to receiving the light that God wants to give him. As St. Augustine says: ''I do not seek to understand that I may believe but I believe [so that I may] understand.''

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PostMon Oct 27, 2008 11:26 am » by Drjones


AVIator wrote:
drjones wrote:Well i am far from convinced...
would a loving creator make our lives on this Earth so treacherous...i dont think so...i think obviously we are corruptable in todays modern age more than ever but like i have said before i do believe in a universal force that created everything but the REAL TRUTH to this has been lost through the ages especially with all the crazy media and newspapers we now got.Good vs Evil certainly exists-ying and yang,but they are forces,ie-the devil isnt a guy with horns and a tail and stokes the fires of hell and god isnt a guy in the sky with a white beard....anyways it is complex and controversial the subject of religion....but i dont believe any of it in terms of what we know today.Hey if i'm wrong i'm wrong-i'll goto hell then wont i,my loving creator will send me to hell for having thoughts :|

Peace for all mankind :flop:


Your points are all very valid drjones. The part about ''my loving creator will send me to hell for having thoughts'' particularly brought a smile to my face! It's true that many people have an idea of God as some old guy with a white beard and the devil with horns, often these images which are only supposed to be figurative are taken to be the reality. For instance, Satan, the devil, is a fallen angel. But angels aren't actually people with wings. That is just how we represent them and how they represent themselves to us in this realm, but in reality they are purely spiritual beings they don't look like us and they don't require wings. And your concept of a creator force is basically what Christians (at least I speak for Catholics and other mainstream Christian denominations) believe. In fact, your notion is spot-on, minus the ''revealed'' details that we have in the Christian faith. You will notice that there are many similarities between the world religions. This is no coincidence, in fact the Catholic Church teaches that there are ''elements'' of truth in all world religions. But the difference with Christianity, is that on top of where man is able to arrive in respect to his imperfect knowledge of the Divine, with the advent of Christ something radical in history took place: God stepped down into our own history, to reveal what by ourselves we could never have arrived at, that is, that God, this creator force/being is not just some distant/impersonal being but wants us to know Him intimately. I understand completely how one can come to the conclusion that ''religion is the opium of the masses'' (karl Marx) but I think that attitude is the result of a failure to understand God himself. If your point of reference for examining religion is the person, than your analysis will only be half complete, like studying a human heart without the rest of the person, it serves no purpose without reference to the human body. It's true that humans have need of religion and that's not wrong. There is a natural religiosity in man, and it has manifested itself for thousands of years (there are no instances of atheistic cultures, it is a modern phenomenon). St. Augustine of Hippo (who has quite an interesting story if you ever get the chance to read his autobiography, '' Confessions'' free download at http://www.catholicspiritualdirection.o ... essionspdf) wrote, ''You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in you."
''God is Love'' is not some wishy washy feel good slogan, but a profound revelation. Love is not a human invention, but existed before us in the Triune God, it is His very essence, and He wants to share that with us. That is what Christianity is about. If I had to describe Christianity, I would say it is a meeting with a person, that person is Jesus, and it is He who reveals to us the meaning of life - love - it is where we came from both on a physical level and a metaphysical level, what sustains us and it is where we are going, and it is all that should be in between. Like you said, drjones, we are much more easily corrupted these days. The work of the Christian is to purify his love that he may see more clearly and be more open to receiving the light that God wants to give him. As St. Augustine says: ''I do not seek to understand that I may believe but I believe [so that I may] understand.''


Thanks i enjoyed reading this post.I still think there is FAR MORE to religion as we know it today than "meets the eye" shall we say.I could be all analytical with the stuff you wrote and the quotes you reference but let me say...really at the end of the day and i aint pushing some NWO one religion stuff but is'nt there really one standard that applies to every man woman and child on the planet,one universal force that connects us all intimately-not multiple?sounds correct to me...and all the DIFFERENT religions we got today only hold us back from real spiritual progress and confuse the hell out of us..ohh no jesus said this,buddah done that...go away i dont like you any more....it's laughable really...i like your references to love and how this is a god force,true,the force of the universe HAS to be love,the air we breath the trillion gazillion process that react on the planet every single second of every single day in order for it to function correctly....absolutely AMAZING!! Albeit there ARE ignorant humans/scientists that are screwing with this process bigtime... :scary:
Anyway i still do not believe in worship or idolising of people and things that happens throughtout the world today as you give away much of your power when you do that,you should instead worship yourself,your own uniqueness,the uniqueness of nature i suppose,how it is connected,why it is connected.....we are all equals...even people like jesus,buddah(If you believe they existed in the first place)and ALL THE REST are no better than anyone alive today,i still believe these figures exist imaginarilly to control the masses and thus are not good for people to realise THEIR OWN TRUE POWER,we are often too quick in todays age to look elsewhere for answers,because of the bible and religious text proclaim the second coming etc people are always looking outward for a saviour(And that brings them to the joke media and ultimately THE GOVERNMENT)...never inward realising THEY ARE the damn saviour...THEY ARE GOD,god is love and that's what WE ALL ARE :D
TODAY WE ARE THE SHEEPLE RULED OVER BY THE "ELITE"...the more people that realise this truth the better the world will become as we will no longer fight meaninglessly amongst ourselves and unite against the true suppresors of humanity's potential.
Phew... :flop:
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