Pee Powered Generator

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Re: Pee Powered Generator

Post by Cia212 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:24 am

Opalserpent wrote:http://www.infinityturbine.com/ORC/ORC_ ... rbine.html

Reading about it made makes me think that you require a waste heat or liquid flow to take advantage
of this system. I'm not sure, can you tell me cia man if this is a closed system or whether it requires
an air or fluid flow?

Well, there is a flow, but a closed loop system (the Rankine Cycle) doesn't dump the fluid into the atmosphere. That's really important for solar applications because the working fluid has to have a lower boiling point so it's usually more dangerous than just water. I've read hexane (isn't that butane?) is used, but you can also use ammonia, Freon, propane, etc. - none of them should be released into the air needlessly. I'm guessing you could use a system like the infinityturbine, but you could probably build one for under $10k...with the right expertise.

As for the RAPS storage system, they say it can store for "relatively long periods of time with minimal loss of energy" - but does it actually give a time frame? Are we talking 15 minutes, 15 hours, 15 days? Imagine trying to transport 19 tons of superheated carbon!

Re: Pee Powered Generator

Post by Opalserpent » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:23 pm

Cia212 wrote:From what I've been reading, the issue is heat transference through the containment vessel to the Hydrogen. It limits the overall efficiency. Again, I think it can give great results on a Watt to Weight basis - which seems to be why Boeing is developing a system for space use - where you have temperature extremes readily available. But, on the ground, you're going to get more power for the heat input with a turbine. And that's what it's all about right? Whether it's solar or wind (or any other fuel) going off-grid requires the highest available efficiency.

But there's something about the design of Stirling engines that just screams cool!


http://www.infinityturbine.com/ORC/ORC_ ... rbine.html

I was checking out some of the waste heat turbines and your right, they are very impressive.

Reading about it made makes me think that you require a waste heat or liquid flow to take advantage
of this system. I'm not sure, can you tell me cia man if this is a closed system or whether it requires
an air or fluid flow?

I can see why this would be better then a sterling motor in certain waste heat scenarios
with factories or geothermal vents etc.

The sterling motor's closed loop system is appealing though the number of
moving parts it has will degrade over time.

The turbine has at least 1 obvious moving part.

Thanks for the info that they want to use this in space, I can see a turbine wouldn't help
much in a vacuum.


DUDE, check this out.

http://www.rapsystems.com.au/esm.html

Image

This is industrial scale but this could be in your home heating your sterling generator.
Screw the turbine. :mrgreen:

The function of the energy storage block developed by CBD is to store large amounts of thermal energy for later use. The process takes advantage of the patented process in which graphite is heated to high temperatures, with the heat extracted at a later time using imbedded heat exchangers. Key design elements of the energy storage module are:

» Structure size standard and based on a 20ft container footprint;
» Graphite heated by distributed Silicon Carbide heating elements (418kW);
» Energy extracted by imbedded stainless steel high pressure piping;

In its current design configuration, each block contains approximately 19 tonnes of graphite and will store approximately 5.5MWh of thermal energy.

Holy crap batman, thats alot of graphite and sounds expensive but wow!!!
a container sized block can hold 5.5mwh, thats like 5500 kwhs in one charge.
Thats if they mean it's the size of a container I'm not sure.

Hell cool technology is here and needs to be cheaper. :cheers:

Re: Pee Powered Generator

Post by Hurtswhenipee » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:13 pm

It hurts to pee :lol:

Re: Pee Powered Generator

Post by Svaha » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:17 am

Cia212 wrote:Stirling Energy Systems already did this, it's their panels in your video. But it doesn't scale up as easily as the video suggests and there's a problem, the falling price of PV cells. Read about Stirling Energy Systems on Wiki - the reason they couldn't compete is because modern PV cells give more power per dollar invested.

I think the next big breakthrough will be in electrical storage systems. Right now, you either have to charge a battery or compress and store hydrogen, both have major drawbacks, but, if you're not going into space, batteries are the way to go...for now.


I think you are right on the storage systems, that's the bottle neck in becoming independant.

Re: Pee Powered Generator

Post by Cia212 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:22 am

From what I've been reading, the issue is heat transference through the containment vessel to the Hydrogen. It limits the overall efficiency. Again, I think it can give great results on a Watt to Weight basis - which seems to be why Boeing is developing a system for space use - where you have temperature extremes readily available. But, on the ground, you're going to get more power for the heat input with a turbine. And that's what it's all about right? Whether it's solar or wind (or any other fuel) going off-grid requires the highest available efficiency.

But there's something about the design of Stirling engines that just screams cool!

Re: Pee Powered Generator

Post by Opalserpent » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:09 am

Cia212 wrote:More info here http://spectrevision.net/2010/04/09/the-stirling-age/

I love the idea of being able to use just about any form of heat, but, and I could be wrong, isn't a conventional closed-system turbine able to do the same thing with better torque?


Maybe but you would have to show me figures.

I think the brilliant thing about the sterling motor is that it's
just recirculating the heated hydrogen around in a heat exchanger
and pushes the hydrogen back up to be reheated.
What a simple and effective ideal.
I suppose it depends on how much heat is required to heat the
hydrogen sufficiently through the heat exchanger powering the piston.

Thank god for spell check. :banana:

Re: Pee Powered Generator

Post by Cia212 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:05 am

More info here http://spectrevision.net/2010/04/09/the-stirling-age/

I love the idea of being able to use just about any form of heat, but, and I could be wrong, isn't a conventional closed-system turbine able to do the same thing with better torque?

Re: Pee Powered Generator

Post by Opalserpent » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:57 am

Cia212 wrote:Stirling Energy Systems already did this, it's their panels in your video. But it doesn't scale up as easily as the video suggests and there's a problem, the falling price of PV cells. Read about Stirling Energy Systems on Wiki - the reason they couldn't compete is because modern PV cells give more power per dollar invested.

I think the next big breakthrough will be in electrical storage systems. Right now, you either have to charge a battery or compress and store hydrogen, both have major drawbacks, but, if you're not going into space, batteries are the way to go...for now.



Cool man, I didn't know how expensive they were. The heliostat was bound to make it expensive.

Still did you like the idea of using alternative heat sources?

It makes me wonder how efficient this device could become, perhaps requiring less heat for the heat
exchange in the piston in the future and whether you could make a version
in reverse taking advantage of cold temperatures. :think:

I don't know, probably too much beer and greens. :dancing:

Oh how about that graphite super cell to store heat with minimum dissipation?
It could be called a battery since it can store phenomenal amounts of heat
for considerable lengths of time with very slow loss of heat. :look:

Re: Pee Powered Generator

Post by Cia212 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:49 am

Stirling Energy Systems already did this, it's their panels in your video. But it doesn't scale up as easily as the video suggests and there's a problem, the falling price of PV cells. Read about Stirling Energy Systems on Wiki - the reason they couldn't compete is because modern PV cells give more power per dollar invested.

I think the next big breakthrough will be in electrical storage systems. Right now, you either have to charge a battery or compress and store hydrogen, both have major drawbacks, but, if you're not going into space, batteries are the way to go...for now.

Re: Pee Powered Generator

Post by Opalserpent » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:09 am

don whuane wrote:could make drinking and driving legal ! :cheers:


Oh, lol I get it, Cause you can pee constantly while powering an electric car and
enjoy getting drunk at the same time. hehe. :P

I think the pee powered generator died in the ass when I found this sterling motor,
it's so simple and effective.

Why we are still buying solar panels is anyones guess.

Though you would need a heliostat to follow the sun and that would be expensive
making this unaffordable for the time being.

But after seeing the use of a blow torch to create the heat necessary one can see
that this technology could be used in different ways and with different heat
sources.


I know I've seen an Australian inventor who recently showed a super hot water system
that can store hot water at incredible temperatures.

I'll try to find that story since something like that could store the suns energy at night
and perhaps have enough heat to run a sterling motor even if a smaller modest
motor at 3 kw. The heat dissipated through the hydrogen piston motor would slowly drain the
super hot water storage system but how quickly?


http://bze.org.au/media/radio/steve-hol ... age-090402



This mans storage technique means water or gas heat i guess can be stored for long
periods of time before it dissipates.

The full technology is explained in the link:

http://bze.org.au/media/radio/steve-hol ... age-090402


What that all means, getting away from the scientific goobledigook, is that if you have a block of extremely hot graphite and if you put your hand close to it, 50 mm away from it, you actually can’t feel it because it’s not radiating heat. Mind you, if you touch it you might lose your finger! It’s that property that contains the heat. So over a day, and obviously there are some differences with ambient temperature conditions and so forth, over a day our blocks lose about 3 to 5% of the thermal energy heat contained within them. Now that depends on wind and temperatures and so forth, but that’s about the average. So, in other words, if you heated the block up and didn’t take any energy out of it, it would take well over a month to actually just cool down to where it started from.


This combined with a sterling motor would be interesting for night time use. :headscratch:

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