Israel to pay UN compensation of US $10m

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Expand view Topic review: Israel to pay UN compensation of US $10m

Re: Israel to pay UN compensation of US $10m

Post by Proto » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:25 pm

concrete wrote:On whos terms?

this is why we need to sit and negotiate ,to decide the terms , Israel will most likely
agree to settle on the 67 borders , no problems so far .
the major problems are jerusalem and the right of return , for this issues more creative solutions will have to be work out .

but the problem is that the Palestinians themselves split in our days , so israel
will negotiate with the fatah , the hamas don't care what the fatah think ,hamas wont
respect any agreement signed with the fatah ,but hamas is not even willing to speak
with israel , for hamas resistance by force and israel destruction is the ideology , so again i ask how can israel talk with someone that is not willing to talk ?

concrete wrote:When Israelis realise that they are no better than the Afrikaans, that may be a start.


that statement is untrue , most Israelis don't think they are better then anyone, we are all
humans ,stop trying to present us as racists ,we are not .

concrete wrote:Placing blame, is not the way to peace.


agreed lets sit and talk , oh wait the Palestinian PM doesn't ready to sit and
talk, he rather blame Israel .

concrete wrote:Rockets don't bring peace.


tell that to the hamas and other militants in gaza ,maybe they will listen to you .

concrete wrote:Talking can be a start.


yes !! too bad abu mazan not willing to talk . not to mention the hamas .

concrete wrote:The problem is.
Who does Israel talk to?


that's good question , israel will talk with anyone who is willing to talk ,problem no one
interested at the moment.

concrete wrote:but since the elected reps of Palestine are ignored and the puppets are usless, who do you talk to first?)


i don't know , really,help a brother out , who Israel should talk to ?

Re: Israel to pay UN compensation of US $10m

Post by Phaeton » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:14 pm

Its obviously an extremely inhumane situation, and if one follows history its quite clear
Israel has the moral lowground in this question, to say the least. The essence is, no matter how you twist and turn the facts, Israel is the occupier. With that honor comes certain responsibilities. Like respecting the Geneva convention, actually adhering to international law, like other countries.

I mean, need I say phosphor on civs, bulldozing villages, Berlin style walls, checkpoints, airraids, snipers? The words of the Israelian political body are very clear, like lowsix pointed out. Indeed, a parallel could be drawn very easily with a certain national socialist movement from 'back in the day'. Thesame movement that permitted, or was the catalyst of the creation of this Israeli state by the way. Anyone ever read anything about 'The transfer agreement'? You should.

Lowsix, respect for the way you put down your words. I read the discussion on this subject, just had to sign up..

Re: Israel to pay UN compensation of US $10m

Post by Snutz » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:23 pm

proto wrote:
snutz wrote:So your logic is if we broke international sanctions before, we can just keep on doing it.


no ,my logic is that that paper not worth the ink on it because all the major powers
all ready broke it in various ways .

snutz wrote:As for the arms Israel has to buy from us with that money, alot of our military technologies are now produced in China if my memory serves me. If this is the case, then we send money to Israel, funded by taxpayers, then get a little kickback so we can buy our own weapons from yet another country, we basically just play middleman .... at the taxpayers expense!


lots of components produced in china but u.s is still a major producer,
Major arms industry corporations in the United States :
AAI Corporation
BAE Systems Inc.
Boeing
Bushmaster Firearms International
Colt's Manufacturing Company
General Atomics
General Electric (primarily through GEAE)
General Dynamics
Honeywell
Lockheed-Martin
Northrop Grumman Corporation
Raytheon Corporation
THOR Global Defense Group
United Technologies (primarily through Pratt and Whitney, Smith and Wesson Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_arms ... _by_nation

The United States is the overall top supplier of weapons. The United States is also the top supplier of weapons to the developing world, accounting for around 36% of worldwide weapons sales, followed by Russia, United Kingdom, Germany and China.[6][7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_indus ... _by_nation

snutz wrote:Let sovereign nations take care of themselves, FUCK interventionism!
The taxpayers have the real power, and if the majority doesn't want this aid leaving the country, then by all means it shouldn't!



that's cool , i don't think my opinion relevant on this ,this is a matter for u.s citizens
to discuss internally among themselves imo , if the u.s gov will stop aid fund to israel
i personally would be ok with that .



Thanks for the info and links on U.S. arms manufacturing!

Re: Israel to pay UN compensation of US $10m

Post by Olmert » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:51 pm

concrete wrote:
israel did not force the arabs out of their houses after the six day war. the arabs left by choice.


By no means am I as eloquent as low. I can be rather blunt. So, just to clarify your statement olmert.
I shall use the words of an Israeli, Benny Morris:

In three villages southwest of Jerusalem and at Qalqilya, houses were destroyed "not in battle, but as punishment ... and in order to chase away the inhabitants ... ---contrary to government...policy," Dayan wrote in his memoirs. In Qalqilya, about a third of the homes were razed and about 12,000 inhabitants were evicted, though many then camped out in the environs. The evictees in both areas were allowed to stay and later were given cement and tools by the Israeli authorities to rebuild at least some of their dwellings. But many thousands of other Palestinians now took to the roads. Perhaps as many as seventy thousand, mostly from the Jericho area, fled during the fighting; tens of thousands more left over the following months. Altogether, about one-quarter of the population of the West Bank, about 200-250,000 people, went into exile. ... They simply walked to the Jordan River crossings and made their way on foot to the East Bank. It is unclear how many were intimidated or forced out by the Israeli troops and how many left voluntarily, in panic and fear. There is some evidence of IDF soldiers going around with loudspeakers ordering West Bankers to leave their homes and cross the Jordan. Some left because they had relatives or sources of livelihood on the East Bank and feared being permanently cut off. Thousands of Arabs were taken by bus from East Jerusalem to the Allenby bridge, though there is no evidence of coercion. The free Israeli-organized transportation, which began on June 11, 1967, went on for about a month. At the bridge they had to sign a document stating that they were leaving of their own free will. Perhaps as many as seventy thousand people emigrated from the Gaza Strip to Egypt and elsewhere in the Arab world. On July 2 the Israeli government announced that it would allow the return of those 1967 refugees who desired to do so, but no later than August 10, later extended to September 13. The Jordanian authorities probably pressured many of the refugees, who constituted an enormous burden, to sign up to return. In practice only 14,000 of the 120,000 who applied were actually allowed by Israel back into the West Bank by the beginning of September. After that, only a trickle of "special cases" were allowed back, perhaps 3,000 in all.


So. Did they really leave by choice? Possibly.
But, when it is historically recorded that they may not have. You should not try to play on peoples ignorance of the situation.
Are you sure you don't work with Mark Regev?


i have heard from personal accounts that as tanks moved thru the arab villages, the soldiers were shocked to see that they were completely abandoned. all belongings stayed in the houses. if i have some time ill try to find some proof on the internetz

Re: Israel to pay UN compensation of US $10m

Post by Proto » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:09 pm

and again you guys prove you see only one side of the coin , let me remind you
that in those same years , millions of Jews where kicked out and forced to leave
Arab countries , all of there belonging and property confiscated and looted .

so if the Palestinians wants right of return those jews that where kicked out
of Arab countries should also get right of return and compensation .

and let me remind you that while the u.n declared state for both people in 49 ,
the Israeli people rejoiced and sang and danced on the streets ,what the
Palestinians did ? started war .
and after the 48 war was over , the Palestinian had from 49 till 67 to create
independent Palestine , but that didn't happened and it got nothing to do with the jews .

so yeah once again i say you guys full of shit , you telling me that im not ready for peace
after i stressed about 50 times that there is nothing more i would like then peace .
fucking ridiculous .

Re: Israel to pay UN compensation of US $10m

Post by Astrodicted » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:21 am

Image

Re: Israel to pay UN compensation of US $10m

Post by Olmert » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:43 am

LowSix wrote:
proto wrote:so what your saying that Israel should accept 4.5 milions Palestinians into
it's population
, because other arab states refusing to accept them ,
when it's obvious that this kind of solution will lead only to civil war ?
yeah that's great idea,keep it .


erm YES!!!!!! ????.

See, generally (now of course this just applies to the rest of the world) but when you defeat/and/or occupy/takeover...(this goes even for evil dictators) a country..
You ALLOW THE NATIVE POPULATION TO STAY. No? (unless you want world opinion turning on you...oh wait...)

Fair and square, they won the six day war, etc ...but this is a principle that the rest of us hold as 'humane". When you TAKE OVER a land that other people occupy and live on, (in contemporary times, anyhow) Once you have taken their homes, lands and livlihoods, you do not make it official policy to harrass, detain, kill, sabotage, wall off, destroy infrastructure (in perpetuity), block foreign humanitarian aid, and basically SHIT on the people whose land you now occupy by force and decree only...

Its sorta the trade off for smashing an enemy, you spare their citizens..
Allow them to live their lives and conduct their survival without harassment.


there are 1 million israeli arabs.
israel did not force the arabs out of their houses after the six day war. the arabs left by choice.

Re: Israel to pay UN compensation of US $10m

Post by Lowsix » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:16 am

If no other statement you make sums up the true subconscious Isreali attitude toward the people ON WHOSE LAND THEY ARE LIVING AND SETTLING...

This would be it sir"

proto wrote:so what your saying that Israel should accept 4.5 milions Palestinians into
it's population
, because other arab states refusing to accept them ,
when it's obvious that this kind of solution will lead only to civil war ?
yeah that's great idea,keep it .


erm YES!!!!!! ????.

See, generally (now of course this just applies to the rest of the world) but when you defeat/and/or occupy/takeover...(this goes even for evil dictators) a country..
You ALLOW THE NATIVE POPULATION TO STAY. No? (unless you want world opinion turning on you...oh wait...)

Fair and square, they won the six day war, etc ...but this is a principle that the rest of us hold as 'humane". When you TAKE OVER a land that other people occupy and live on, (in contemporary times, anyhow) Once you have taken their homes, lands and livlihoods, you do not make it official policy to harrass, detain, kill, sabotage, wall off, destroy infrastructure (in perpetuity), block foreign humanitarian aid, and basically SHIT on the people whose land you now occupy by force and decree only...

Its sorta the trade off for smashing an enemy, you spare their citizens..
Allow them to live their lives and conduct their survival without harassment.

proto wrote: because other arab states refusing to accept them


You're blaming the OTHER Arab states for not taking them as some sort of justification.
Thats so perverse, im not even sure I have words for it. If i tell you what you just said, youll say im full of shit, so ill let other people read your words and conclude their meaning.

(Ill translate: They are unlike us and hate-riddled (due to our occupation) they are no longer humans worthy of our respect or cohabitation)

That is what you are saying, its just that the concept has engrained itself in your head so deep you cant even comprehend what an inhumane, and shall I dare say reminiscent of NAzi expulsion policy...that frankly, im floored it gets used in the debate. Ive heard others say the same thing.."Well, the OTHER Arab states won't take them"...well yeah thats because its not their fucking job to take in people isreal is displacing by force and long term pressure....were talking about a native population....people who lived there FIRST!

Im hoping that you say things like that out of habit, rather than out of long term logic.

You said SPECIFICALLY, that the Arabs (who were already living there) dont have the right to live in their homeland BECAUSE isreal forced them out, and theyre angry, and THEREFORE they cant be good neighbors.

Thats a whopper bro...that famous isreali twist..
that can make black seem white if you sing it right...

And on this nonsense that i only see one side of the coin, both Concrete and I have gone wayyyy out of our way to say that we can acknowledge ALL of the PAL political mistakes, and where they hold responsibility, their rejection of SEVERAL key accords, and all..but you perpetually ignore it and then accuse me of the opposite, saying ive just bought the propaganda..so get a little more honest here with me or we're done discussing all of it..

Thats some bullshit dismissal tactic, and im immune to it.

Re: Israel to pay UN compensation of US $10m

Post by Proto » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:33 am

or in yours :
Image

but really lets stop that .

Image

Re: Israel to pay UN compensation of US $10m

Post by Bahb3 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:19 am

or in your case:

Image

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