The Nazis and Freemasonry

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Expand view Topic review: The Nazis and Freemasonry

Re: The Nazis and Freemasonry

Post by Kacen » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:24 pm

In Nazi propaganda Freemasonry and Jews were constantly lumped into the same group; claiming Freemasons were just one "arm" of the "Jewish conspiracy". The debunked Protocols of the Elders of Zion claimed such.

Now, the Romanian Iron Guard, a Fascist/Nazi-esque group in Romania, that was /very/ anti-semitic and outwardly anti-Masonic, did have some associates that were Masons, which is strange. Octavian Goga and Ion Antonescu come to mind.

Re: The Nazis and Freemasonry

Post by Harbin » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:16 pm

Apologies for typo, meant to read 32 degree.

Re: The Nazis and Freemasonry

Post by Lordgaga » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:12 pm

yoursoulmate wrote:no need to get rude ego-driven individual :mrgreen:

actually, I am living in Germany, 50% of my ancestors are German, therefore a lot of them knew what the third reich was like..they knew more than they wished to know :top:
besides that ..Nazi Germany is the n°1 topic in school here.. ..of course the books don't tell you about the occult background of the Nazi Germany, but other sources do..to me the link is obvious..
my research goes waaaay further than wikipedia articles :hmmm: ..and despite of all that I still have very much to learn..so what do you know? Enlighten me with your knowledge :look:


Ciao bella! :love: :love: :love: I have something to tell u about some small detail about nazi.
Small but interesting details.

Re: The Nazis and Freemasonry

Post by Sentientseed » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:02 pm

What is there to kid about? A 32 is merely a pay your dues and you can be recognized as one. No knowledge required really. No study. Nada beyond being an Master Mason (3rd degree) in good standing. Very very easy to become inactive for a poor person as I. 33rd well it isn't easily obtained. Quite the contrary and thus why I am surprised to see a 33rd inactive and curious as to why.

Re: The Nazis and Freemasonry

Post by Savwafair2012 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:42 pm

:o
Why non-active? I am surprised to see a 33rd non-active.

I am a non-active 32nd myself. One being financial. I am not even active in local blue lodge.


Are you guys flippin kidding me???? :headscratch:

Re: The Nazis and Freemasonry

Post by Ptk1071 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:30 pm

sentientseed,

I'd be happy to address your comments.

Simply put, Try Freemasonry!
Like all things, if you like the spirit if the organization, but find fault in it's practitioners/members, take a stand and change it. I will absolutely stand with you my Brother. Nobody ever thought that the ugly head of racism in GLofG would ever be challenged, well it has, and universal brotherhood has prevailed.
Nobody is saying racism is dead there, but barrier has been pierced and now its just a matter of time. In fact many GLs threatened that GL with withdrawal of recognition if they do not end racism, exemplified in this particular case. The Brothers of Gate City Lodge took a stand and won a small but important victory to that end.

What you should not do is follow the piped piper as some did a few years back and try and re-invent Masonry as they saw it. Where are they now? Discredited and all but defunct. They lost their voice in Freemasonry. This group thought they could do it better, well they should have stayed and been the voices of reason that are prevailing on these issues. Nobody thought bringing Freemasonry into the 21st century would be easy, but as slow as it is to change, it will and does change.

In the GLoP, the new MWGM has introduced sweeping reforms that have the Brethren reeling. Change is always possible if you stick to it and see it through.

Fredrick Douglas once answered a young black man's question "what can I do to help abolish slavery" and his answer was simple, "agitate, always agitate".

No one is foolish enough to believe that bigotry and racism do not exists in the world and in Freemasonry. All I am saying is Freemasonry needs Brethren to change that and if you don't get involved you can't. You know if you speak up, you may run into resistance, but there are Brothers that agree with you and will stand with you. If you are sincere then Freemasonry needs Brethren like yourself to foment that change. It will not happen overnight but if you have the guts, find those like minded and build a voice for change and it will come.

I was not addressing my doubt at anyone in particular with regards to claims of degree. In these forums anyone can claim anything. I do doubt the veracity of the person who claims to have attained the 33rd and is now non active. That defies logic as you should know that the few privileged to have been honored by the SR with the honorary 33rd it is for devotion to and a lifetime of service to the Craft. Unless due to age, infirmity or both they are unable to attend any SR or lodge functions. Then I can understand. Also that the commenter was so easily swayed by the OP, well suspicious is an understatement.

If you want to validate you claim, then join the SanctumSanctorum.com forum or themasonicsociety.com forum and your claim will be validated by the administrators. The best part is you will find many, many liked minded Brethren on those forums as they are open to any Mason in good standing in a recognized GL jurisdiction.
Knock and the door shall be opened, ask as you shall receive...I'm sure you remember that from your degrees. Yes, go ahead and be that light! Your Brethren will see the truth in it.
So as my old Drill Instructor used to say: "Lead, Follow or get out of the way!" :flop:

Re: The Nazis and Freemasonry

Post by Sentientseed » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:03 pm

ptk1071,

Please address some of my comments. My comments concern my own jurisdiction but I have some great friends and masonic brothers in the bordering state of Missouri.

I hold no ill will toward anyone in my jurisdiction. I am quite fond of many of them...especially the current grandmaster (someone I wanted to model from in some aspects), the man who presided over my 3rd degree, and a few others. Maybe my lack of accepting racism and exclusion with a "they know not what they do" mentality is my flaw. Maybe I should just be a light by example in such situations. It just is very uncomfortable situation to be in for sure.

If my 32 degree claims are being questioned....I have provided info on how it could be checked by any brother.

Re: The Nazis and Freemasonry

Post by Ptk1071 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:35 pm

Horse hockey! I find it highly unlikely that the OP is a Mason, much less a 32nd degree SR Mason. I also doubt the validity of the OPs claims. I am also German, a Freemason and have also researched Freemasonry in Germany before, during and after the Nazis. And your claims (if they are actually yours) are not based in any real facts.

I would be more amenable to discuss, debate or re-research you claims but you post no cites to any of you claims. The mere fact that you assert that the Freemasons are directly linked to the Knights Templar and your hacked attempt to summarize them, decries faulty scholarship. From you post I gather you are still in school. If that is so, please check and cite your sources. Please stay in school and learn as you are no fully cooked yet.

The Scottish Rite, was first promulgated by the Chevalier Ramsay, not Bonneville, (again check your source).
The other issue is that once a GL or other body changes their name or alters the ritual to the degree you assert, they cease to be Freemasons. In short, the Nazis considered all Freemasonry to be seditious and were branded as such. Those members who were found out, were sent to the concentration camps, where many lost their lives. Not because they admitted Jews, but because they believed in 1. A Supreme Being that was not Der Fuhrer and 2) that they also believed in Freethinking and tolerance, politically, religiously and socially. These beliefs were the antithesis to the Nazi party, which demanded allegiance and unquestioning loyalty to only one man, Adolf Hitler.

Also it seems as if you 'lifted' this material from a known anti-Masonic website. The author of which has been thoroughly debunked and is known to Canadian police and public officials as a mentally ill individual. You can see for yourself here: http://www.masonicinfo.com/watchy.htm :o

I was under the impression that schools/Universities, etc. taught that information pulled from the Internet was not research, nor reliable, therefore not scholarly. If you happen to be Watchy using another moniker, well I know this will trigger a hate filled response and no amount of real research will convince you that your beliefs of Freemasonry are delusional.
If you are not him, I apologize for the inference and hope you will try this again with objectivity and not rely on spurious websites for you info.

Oh and claims of being a 33rd are not really believable either and do not lend credibility to the commenter. So anyone reading this should be warned that any claims to be something, should be backed up with proof and mail order clandestine degrees don't count.

Re: The Nazis and Freemasonry

Post by Sentientseed » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:57 am

Harbin,

I've sporadically read bits and pieces of these forums for a long while now and have posted on a rare occasion...but, not enough to really capture personalities or even anything remotely close. So please excuse this question if it has been answered or is too personal.

Why non-active? I am surprised to see a 33rd non-active.

I am a non-active 32nd myself. One being financial. I am not even active in local blue lodge. I became a bit disheartened in addition to financial reasons. One...being in the south...there is much racism in the hearts of those attending lodge. It is difficult for me to tolerate such without reminding one of their error and trying to aid in their reformation so to speak. :) It seems very easy to claim others to be "irregular" and charters to be debated heatedly when they dislike a certain group of people. I also dislike the fact that my grand lodge decided to expel another person just for being a wiccan. Many brothers so much as saying they would dimit out if this person was not expelled. So I found myself disheartened that my interpretation of the philosophy of freemasonry was just an ideal and not a far reaching brotherhood practice. when I asked a brother of high office within grand lodge who also was at my "raising" why the expel if the the man made the professions he was supposed to make. His response..."We don't want their kind in our lodge." Kind of odd for one to say such a thing if one believes in universal brotherhood.

I also felt that my desire to rise in freemasonry in order to learn was felt as a threat to others. I wasn't happy just sitting and not doing and felt my desire to move forward in the lodge was being thwarted intentionally. In believing this, I also did not want any to perceive me to be trying to take over or out do them, nor did I want to to feel badly because I can memorize things quickly. Do to all the reasons...I just quit going to lodge and could no longer afford to keep up my dues. I had a brother or two that did seem to feel like I had something to offer... pay my dues a couple times. Once for the blue lodge and once for the Rite. I do have the need to pay them back but unfortunately cannot. It is a horrible feeling. Although they never asked for recompense, I feel a necessity and desire to do so and unfortunately cannot. It is awkward for me and another reason I avoid lodge. Accepting finacial charity is harder than it seems it would be.


Everything I learned I learned prior and outside of the lodge through the net and my own personal library. The 32 degree, unless one really listens to and makes a concentrated effort to think about the play they watch being acted out, is nothing more than a dollar sign. If you have the money to pay for it...and are a master mason...anyone with the money can be a 32 degree in recognition. With the lack of community service in the blue lodge, lack of teaching in either, the cost, and politics....I again just stopped going. Even with all that...I miss it. The 33 degree is either earned based on accomplishment either in life or in masonry or honorarily bestowed on the same. So even though I have became non-active...it is odd for me to see a 33rd become inactive unless health, age, or a change of heart was in play.

Also when I asked a brother who was at my raising and also SRICF member certain questions concerning Kaballah, which at one time the mention of such did appear on the SRICF website, he told me he had no clue what I was talking about. I found this odd. What did occur was I felt there was no way on earth I could ever get in to such a group...whether this was an accurate feeling or not i do not know. This person is highly knowledgeable in ritual and I would presume understanding to be in the position in masonry he is in today. He never was anything but nice to me and encouraged me...but it seemed odd concerning the wiccan expulsion and then the not answering any questions posed concerning the SRICF other than a "you are correct" on some very basic stuff.

When i questioned another brother about joining such groups as B.O.T.A, O.T.O, Druid orders, and such...I got the impression it would not be received very positively and I didn't understand that. As long as I believe in a supreme being...it shouldn't matter what belief I hold as far as being a Freemason is concerned.

So if masonic leaders are not free with info and teaching and one must dig through the muck on their own...i decided what is the point in attending.

I have no issue with letting anyone know my affiliation. I belong to (if i haven't been outed for lack of payment in dues) randolph lodge #71. My grand lodge is in arkansas. Ronnie Hedge is our current state grandmaster and attended my raising. Highly knowledgeable guy and also the SCRIF member I spoke to concerning Kaballah.

My Scottish Rite affilation did state Memphis but when I check my info at the Temple website...they say i am not listed but i still receive my magazine. So either lack of dues payment and got removed but if so...why still get the magazine. Interesting. :)

If any want to know my true belief...it is somewhat discussed in the thread concerning the Hidden_Hands posting.

Re: The Nazis and Freemasonry

Post by Harbin » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:10 am

That post was very interesting. I had bought into the idea the the Freemasonry, in Germany, was yet another victim of the Nazi years. I will look further into this new information.

Thank you Sav.

Harbin
non - active 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Freemason

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