Ron Paul Flip Flops on iran NUKES

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PostThu Dec 29, 2011 2:56 pm » by Rydher


So I take it you can't put it into context either?

Would you care to point out just one inconstancy from me? Or one example of my dishonesty? Of course not, you can't. :mrcool:

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PostThu Dec 29, 2011 3:20 pm » by Constabul


abdul14 wrote:first clip he says why wouldnt iran want nukes, they are surrounded by nukes its only natural they would want tham too


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second clip he completely deny they even want or working to get nukes


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and you gotta love how he didnt hear nothing didnt see nothing about the newsletters that was published with his signeture all over tham for years
all of a sudden the dude became an ostrich



Ok just watched both clips, and i am failing to see the flip flop here.
The stance of the first clip seems inline with the second.
Would you sanction Iran if they developed nukes?
No sanctions do not work and are a precursor to war.
Say iran is now known to have nukes, would you sanction them?
No, sanctions do not work, and are a precursor to war.
Plus added info..

It seems more so in the second he is missing the point of the question at first, which is a debate tactic to see how over reactionary a person is.
If the same question is asked, and the candidate jumps at a chance to say, "We sanction, and if sanctions dont work we goto war!"
How is that a good thing when nukes are involved.

I havent been in a rabbit hole, but i also havent been on top of the latest news. While it does seem iran is working on nukes, under the guise of nuke power plants, It seems last i saw there was not absolute proof they had one. Tho even if they did, i would have to agree how much worse is that, verses all the other nations who have them, that could have accidents or intentional use of one.
The US and Russia played this game a not so long time ago. If the other nations of the world wanna swim in the deep end, they have to grow up and not bring the kiddy pool mentality.

Anything can happen, I guess the eventual question would be, how would Iran having Nukes be a adverse development in the world?
Certainly there are religious types at the head of the government. Tho how is that different then most other "superpowers"?
I think we could conclude that the presence of people who hold to tightly to "Religious" teachings are the real culprits who threaten everyone else, if their finger is near the button.
Mainly from the Abrahamic religious origin.
Last I checked there were not any Shintoist, Buddhist, or those who follow Confucianism who were inspired by the idea of jesus allah or jehovah ushering the end of days into being, with the help of a nuke.

Kinda like beating a dead horse tho.
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PostThu Dec 29, 2011 3:41 pm » by Rydher


Constabul, I thought the same thing as you when I watched them and began to type out a post in defense of that. His stance was pretty much the same, so perhaps flip flop is the wrong word to use. I think the phrase "Having your cake and eating it too.", is more of an appropriate descriptor.

On one hand he's saying there is no evidence of Iran pursuing a nuke (which is another debate on the nativity/dishonesty of that statement). Then he says he can't blame them for wanting to pursue nukes given the geopolitical implications and situation. Which, when you use just a little bit of critical thinking, shows at the very least him being disingenuous about what he personally believes. Versus what he is saying and using US and World intelligence to back up his political ideology.

He can't very well come out and say he believes Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. That then puts him in the precarious situation of having to defend his ideological position and risk angering his base, while at the same time pushing the general population even further away. Because you then have to defend why you won't do anything, even sanctions, on a nation that has openly declared the wanted destruction of another nation and the open hatred toward the US. Even at the risk of their own demise. Which is why the comparison between the Cold War and any other nuclear nation doesn't fit this situation.

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PostThu Dec 29, 2011 4:06 pm » by Mediasorcerer


well go vote the same old bush cronies into office then,if your going to nit pik every little statement he makes,and construe it as a falsehood,never mind ron paul has been the only honest speaking and consistent member for the last 20 yrs,
maybe you ryder can go in person to the fathers and mothers of dead american soldiers and explain to them why there sons and daughters are DEAD and why they died in some strange country to bring so called democracy just like irag and all the others that are now in a state of chaos and worse than they were before the intervention?


lets be real here ryder, you have changed your mind about him because he doesnt want to keep supporting israel in the way its so far been done,

you go tell the parents,better still, go tell abdul to,or proto,

thats what all your left wing fanatics want ,war isnt it,that will solve everything,
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PostThu Dec 29, 2011 4:07 pm » by SamueltheLion


there is no flip flop:

ron paul says; it would only be natural IF they wanted nukes: israel & co have them,

but, they are not making them themselves.

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PostThu Dec 29, 2011 4:12 pm » by Mediasorcerer


rydher wrote:Constabul, I thought the same thing as you when I watched them and began to type out a post in defense of that. His stance was pretty much the same, so perhaps flip flop is the wrong word to use. I think the phrase "Having your cake and eating it too.", is more of an appropriate descriptor.

On one hand he's saying there is no evidence of Iran pursuing a nuke (which is another debate on the nativity/dishonesty of that statement). Then he says he can't blame them for wanting to pursue nukes given the geopolitical implications and situation. Which, when you use just a little bit of critical thinking, shows at the very least him being disingenuous about what he personally believes. Versus what he is saying and using US and World intelligence to back up his political ideology.

He can't very well come out and say he believes Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. That then puts him in the precarious situation of having to defend his ideological position and risk angering his base, while at the same time pushing the general population even further away. Because you then have to defend why you won't do anything, even sanctions, on a nation that has openly declared the wanted destruction of another nation and the open hatred toward the US. Even at the risk of their own demise. Which is why the comparison between the Cold War and any other nuclear nation doesn't fit this situation.



see there you go again,lying, iran has stated over and over it does not want war or any confrontation with the west or israel, in fact iran has a jewish population of many thousands,, but is being forced into it by things like sanctions,and war talk by the war hawks like you,-liars.


see how you twist the truth to suit your agenda, and you have the nerve to criticise rp-----,hahahaha


same old memes ryder, same old rhetoric, and guess what, the world is waking up mate, and not you nor proto or abdull can stop it mate,

the horse has bolted on all the lies, wmd,s in iraq, ?now its irans turn,

all because people like you push violence as the solution, meaning you have no real faith in god, your not even real jews.
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PostThu Dec 29, 2011 4:13 pm » by Constabul


rydher wrote:Constabul, I thought the same thing as you when I watched them and began to type out a post in defense of that. His stance was pretty much the same, so perhaps flip flop is the wrong word to use. I think the phrase "Having your cake and eating it too.", is more of an appropriate descriptor.

On one hand he's saying there is no evidence of Iran pursuing a nuke (which is another debate on the nativity/dishonesty of that statement). Then he says he can't blame them for wanting to pursue nukes given the geopolitical implications and situation. Which, when you use just a little bit of critical thinking, shows at the very least him being disingenuous about what he personally believes. Versus what he is saying and using US and World intelligence to back up his political ideology.

He can't very well come out and say he believes Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. That then puts him in the precarious situation of having to defend his ideological position and risk angering his base, while at the same time pushing the general population even further away. Because you then have to defend why you won't do anything, even sanctions, on a nation that has openly declared the wanted destruction of another nation and the open hatred toward the US. Even at the risk of their own demise. Which is why the comparison between the Cold War and any other nuclear nation doesn't fit this situation.


I'm not completely sure he believes they are, Granted this is pure speculation of the moment on my part.
While I can certianly agree that he is avoiding planting a flag presenting his stance, which is nothing more then being a crafty politician.
I'm not sure that he would anger his supporters, depending on the way he tried to carry it out.
As far as Iran openly threatening Israel, it is truly no different then the US and Russia, or Pakistan and India. The circumstances are different in cause, but the situation is the same.
Two nations with the power to destroy the other. So in essence to the "Older" generations, it makes perfect sense as they have lived it, or witnessed it. In such, it is applicable.

Now he could push the general populace away in such comments, likely do to a disconnect with history, as happens alot in political debates and circumstances.
Tho I think in a unbiased examination, his stance is appropriate, in a world full of other peoples beyond ones own borders.
We can be there to try to be diplomatic, and assist in issues we are requested to.
But to actively interfere with other nations policies has been proven historically to be a bad stance in the way of foreign policy that costs us creditability, likability, and US lives.

I'm not saying go vote paul. Honestly, I do not vote, I feel the system is rigged, and the president is nothing more then a front man. More so the popular vote is not the electing factor. In some instances they may come into play in a "tight" race, but are by no means a determinate factor in general.
I'm only speaking on my opinion of what sentiment is being expressed by pauls position.

He is being disingenuous? Can one truly be a politician without being such :)
Is he being Disingenuous about the nuke production, and intelligence reports of such.
Well, While i could entertain the thought he does not believe they are, even with information by the CIA to say they are.
We have instances like with the Iraq war, where British intel brought us an "Insider" who knew wmd were being transported, our cia then "confirmed" it, and along with UN sanctions being broken by Saddam about 14 times, we invaded.
Later we could not find the specific wmds in question, tho we found other weapons.
Our intel has been flawed before, leading us to war. It certianly could be again.
I dunno if paul is thinking of such. But I just did.

Anyway. Got to run
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PostThu Dec 29, 2011 4:15 pm » by Mediasorcerer


ryder =a consistent liar. :lol: :alien51: :banana:
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PostThu Dec 29, 2011 4:17 pm » by Mediasorcerer


mediasorcerer wrote:
rydher wrote:Constabul, I thought the same thing as you when I watched them and began to type out a post in defense of that. His stance was pretty much the same, so perhaps flip flop is the wrong word to use. I think the phrase "Having your cake and eating it too.", is more of an appropriate descriptor.

On one hand he's saying there is no evidence of Iran pursuing a nuke (which is another debate on the nativity/dishonesty of that statement). Then he says he can't blame them for wanting to pursue nukes given the geopolitical implications and situation. Which, when you use just a little bit of critical thinking, shows at the very least him being disingenuous about what he personally believes. Versus what he is saying and using US and World intelligence to back up his political ideology.

He can't very well come out and say he believes Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. That then puts him in the precarious situation of having to defend his ideological position and risk angering his base, while at the same time pushing the general population even further away. Because you then have to defend why you won't do anything, even sanctions, on a nation that has openly declared the wanted destruction of another nation and the open hatred toward the US. Even at the risk of their own demise. Which is why the comparison between the Cold War and any other nuclear nation doesn't fit this situation.



see there you go again,lying, iran has stated over and over it does not want war or any confrontation with the west or israel, in fact iran has a jewish population of many thousands,, but is being forced into it by things like sanctions,and war talk by the war hawks like you,-liars.


see how you twist the truth to suit your agenda, and you have the nerve to criticise rp-----,hahahaha


same old memes ryder, same old rhetoric, and guess what, the world is waking up mate, and not you nor proto or abdull can stop it mate,

the horse has bolted on all the lies, wmd,s in iraq, ?now its irans turn,

all because people like you push violence as the solution, meaning you have no real faith in god, your not even real jews.








perfect example of choosing to believe the lies because it suits your agenda.


see how your subconscious projects your own guilt onto someone else like rp?
with the power of soul,anything is possible
with the power of you,anything that you wanna do

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PostThu Dec 29, 2011 4:20 pm » by Truthseekerx


phaeton, mediasorcerer, etc.:

You are wasting time talking to shills! They are not here to seek truth. They are here to distract and agitate--that is all!

Your time would be much better spent promoting Ron Paul on NEW THREADS.

Let this thread die as it should.


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