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PostSat May 05, 2012 12:21 am » by Constabul


Iamthatiam wrote:This info about these 'zombie Ants' is amazingly scary, my friend, and triggers debates surrounding wild speculations, based on a category of understanding provenient of the old knowledge, which im trying to concatenate with various modern Physiological studies....This is where you get into the equation!

I will give you here, the two dots, the rest Im sure you will figure...As wild concept as it gets, put under the purely empirical prisma, it makes a lot of sense to me, and with your help, this could make a lot more...

Here it goes...The first article is already copied by me inside an old thread, I can't remember if it is the very exact same article, but pretty much covers the same subject...


NASA Finds New Life (Updated)

NASA has discovered a new life form, a bacteria called GFAJ-1 that is unlike anything currently living in planet Earth. It's capable of using arsenic to build its DNA, RNA, proteins, and cell membranes. This changes everything. Updated.

NASA is saying that this is "life as we do not know it". The reason is that all life on Earth is made of six components: Carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and sulfur. Every being, from the smallest amoeba to the largest whale, share the same life stream. Our DNA blocks are all the same.

That was true until today. In a surprising revelation, NASA scientist Felisa Wolfe-Simon and her team have found a bacteria whose DNA is completely alien to what we know today, working differently than the rest of the organisms in the planet. Instead of using phosphorus, the newly discovered microorganism—called GFAJ-1 and found in Mono Lake, California—uses the poisonous arsenic for its building blocks. Arsenic is an element poisonous to every other living creature in the planet except for a few specialized microscopic creatures.

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The new life forms up close, at five micrometers.

According to Wolfe-Simon, they knew that "some microbes can breathe arsenic, but what we've found is a microbe doing something new—building parts of itself out of arsenic." The implications of this discovery are enormous to our understanding of life itself and the possibility of finding organisms in other planets that don't have to be like planet Earth. Like NASA's Ed Weiler says: "The definition of life has just expanded."

Watch the vid, here :arrow: Here's the organism and a computer simulation on how it substitutes phosphorus for arsenic in its DNA

Talking at the NASA conference, Wolfe-Simon said that the important thing in their study is that this breaks our ideas on how life can be created and grow, pointing out that scientists will now be looking for new types of organisms and metabolism that not only uses arsenic, but other elements as well. She says that she's working on a few possibilities herself.

NASA's geobiologist Pamela Conrad thinks that the discovery is huge and "phenomenal," comparing it to the Star Trek episode in which the Enterprise crew finds Horta, a silicon-based alien life form that can't be detected with tricorders because it wasn't carbon-based. It's like saying that we may be looking for new life in the wrong places with the wrong methods. Indeed, NASA tweeted that this discovery "will change how we search for life elsewhere in the Universe."

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Mono Lake, in Central California. Image Credit: NASA

I don't know about you but I've not been so excited about bacteria since my STD tests came back clean. And that's without counting yesterday's announcement on the discovery of a massive number of red dwarf stars, which may harbor a trillion Earths, dramatically increasing our chances of finding extraterrestrial life.


Here is the subject, I hope you to put it under perspective, because it is said by the old initiatic schools, humans have this 'Gland' inside them brains, +/- the size of a small sand grain, called 'Pineal Gland', and the most curious about this, is that it might perfectly be a silicate based component of the human brain. Going even further, one could say that this 'Bio-microchip' could perfectly be the legendary (And so called) 'Philosopher's Stone', well known by you, Im sure!

Now, I want you to put this possibility, under the discovery of the previously mentioned article!!!

Scary theory, aye? :shock:

Depending on youre reactions, I will elaborate more what I think! :mrgreen:

:cheers:


Well i honestly, can only hope to provide, what you afford me. To which is a bit humbling. Thanks for thinking as such of my opinion i can only hope it travels in the proper direction.

First i wanna touch two topics to make sure we are on a similar page, if nothing more.. then understanding.

Pineal Gland, In the context i've read/seen the pineal gland, is pretty much as such.


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Primarily being linked to DMT, third eye, soul gland..
Scientifically speaking.
It produces melatonin hormone, as it is apart of the endocrine system.
Here are some scientific bits of info about melatonin,

Light dependence:Production of melatonin by the pineal gland is inhibited by light to the retina and permitted by darkness. Its onset each evening is called the dim-light melatonin onset (DLMO).

Circadian rhythm:In humans, melatonin is produced by the pineal gland, a small endocrine gland located in the center of the brain but outside the blood-brain barrier. The melatonin signal forms part of the system that regulates the sleep-wake cycle by chemically causing drowsiness and lowering the body temperature, but it is the central nervous system (specifically the suprachiasmatic nuclei, or SCN) that controls the daily cycle in most components of the paracrine and endocrine systems rather than the melatonin signal (as was once postulated).

Antioxidant:Besides its function as synchronizer of the biological clock, melatonin also exerts a powerful antioxidant activity. In many less complex life forms, this is its only known function. Melatonin is an antioxidant that can easily cross cell membranes and the blood-brain barrier.

Immune system
Dreaming
Autism
Aging
Etc


All of these and more are linked in some way to the pineal gland. And when you think about it these are some really BIG, life shaping structures.


There is a compelling link to retinal cells, and a common evolutionary ancestor of the pineal gland, As the brain developed over various stages. Which is a tie into third eye concepts. Or is that the other way around, as you eluded with"
the old initiatic schools, ". I think some compelling links to many of the phenomenon experienced by humans, as attributable to the pineal gland. As it is vary active, throughout life. To steal a phrase, "Who knows what the full implications could be.

Second, The Philosopher's Stone (E.g chakra/kundalini activation, akashic records, Pool of creative knowledge..
More so of the physical understanding of the energy patterns and "triggers" for desired effects.
In essence only wanting to put a baseline reference point to depth of thought.
And while some might would scoff such purposed ideas, the more we learn about medical science the more plausible this line of thought becomes, and really like the pineal gland before. Demonstrate a wealth of knowledge being conveyed in ancient terms.
Magnetic fields radiate from the human body at different points, but the two most common associated with Science of accepted sorts, are the magnetic fields of the brain and heart (Electrocardiography:ECG/EKG).
just recently posted on some material just before your reply, about such topics. Which dovetail to not only this topic, but another one i am working on.


That said. :D
And keeping to the realm of scientific discoveries, or understanding To support not only long known human physiological understanding and mystical beliefs, but actually find ways to alter the "balance" of this system.

As to the linked article , In correlation to additional sited breakthroughs in DNA research and development, you have the "new" parameters in which the human gene can be manipulated.
Even more troubling, as with the Zombie fungus, it too could be engineered for affected a segment of a populace (given time) That would have some pretty big ramification, to the existence of most of humanity. One troubling comment to me is, "an antioxidant that can easily cross cell membranes and the blood-brain barrier." This process adapted to the fungus' way of pinpointing a certain location in a ANTs brain, all by the power of science, which is the power of the brain at work.


I look at these articles and see a possible future of mindless humans, whos pineal gland could be attacked by a fungus that causes the cells to rearrange themselves, or alters it with new components, or maybe just solidify it all together.

Honestly a bit of that is my imagination taking root and running with the idea.
Look to the previous article i posted, and it deals with using magnetic fields to hamper moral decision making, such as recognizing murder as a bad thing, or reacting to your child making dangerous choices and preforming them.

This is a vary large implication in its self. As brainwashing, and programming are contested fields of research. But here is something as simple as a directed magnetic field. You then start looking at fungus' and DNA bioengineering, Now to start including arsenic based life forms or DNA alterations.

You are talking about a large spectrum of speculation, As it is all possible. In science with the knowledge skill sets humans possess at this point in the game.

I'll see what you think of my train of thought and if you expand, or clarify anything.

Since I made this thread my mind has been rolling over ideas and scenarios based off the applicable data provided in the videos and articles. While the direction hasn't been planned, the spectrum of topic matter tie into one another in interesting ways.
:cheers:
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PostSun May 06, 2012 4:53 am » by Constabul


Couple Really cool articles

Synesthesia May Explain Healers Claims of Seeing People's 'Aura'
ScienceDaily (May 4, 2012) — Researchers in Spain have found that at least some of the individuals claiming to see the so-called aura of people actually have the neuropsychological phenomenon known as "synesthesia" (specifically, "emotional synesthesia"). This might be a scientific explanation of their alleged ability.
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New research suggests that at least some of the individuals claiming to see the so-called aura of people actually have the neuropsychological phenomenon known as "synesthesia" (specifically, "emotional synesthesia"). This might be a scientific explanation of their alleged ability. (Credit: © Nikki Zalewski / Fotolia)
In synesthetes, the brain regions responsible for the processing of each type of sensory stimuli are intensely interconnected. Synesthetes can see or taste a sound, feel a taste, or associate people or letters with a particular color.

The study was conducted by the University of Granada Department of Experimental Psychology Óscar Iborra, Luis Pastor and Emilio Gómez Milán, and has been published in the journal Consciousness and Cognition. This is the first time that a scientific explanation has been provided for the esoteric phenomenon of the aura, a supposed energy field of luminous radiation surrounding a person as a halo, which is imperceptible to most human beings.

In basic neurological terms, synesthesia is thought to be due to cross-wiring in the brain of some people (synesthetes); in other words, synesthetes present more synaptic connections than "normal" people. "These extra connections cause them to automatically establish associations between brain areas that are not normally interconnected," professor Gómez Milán explains. New research suggests that many healers claiming to see the aura of people might have this condition.

The case of the "Santón de Baza"
One of the University of Granada researchers remarked that "not all 'healers' are synesthetes, but there is a higher prevalence of this phenomenon among them. The same occurs among painters and artists, for example." To carry out this study, the researchers interviewed some synesthetes including a 'healer' from Granada, "Esteban Sánchez Casas," known as "El Santón de Baza".

Many local people attribute "paranormal powers" to El Santón, because of his supposed ability to see the aura of people "but, in fact, it is a clear case of synesthesia," the researchers explained. According to the researchers, El Santón has face-color synesthesia (the brain region responsible for face recognition is associated with the color-processing region); touch-mirror synesthesia (when the synesthete observes a person who is being touched or is experiencing pain, s/he experiences the same); high empathy (the ability to feel what other person is feeling), and schizotypy (certain personality traits in healthy people involving slight paranoia and delusions). "These capacities make synesthetes have the ability to make people feel understood, and provide them with special emotion and pain reading skills," the researchers explain.

In the light of the results obtained, the researchers remarked on the significant "placebo effect" that healers have on people, "though some healers really have the ability to see people's 'auras' and feel the pain in others due to synesthesia." Some healers "have abilities and attitudes that make them believe in their ability to heal other people, but it is actually a case of self-deception, as synesthesia is not an extrasensory power, but a subjective and 'adorned' perception of reality," the researchers state.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 110024.htm



First Light: Researchers Develop New Way to Generate Superluminal Pulses
ScienceDaily (May 3, 2012) —Researchers at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) have developed a novel way of producing light pulses that are "superluminal" -- in some sense they travel faster than the speed of light. The technique, called four-wave mixing, reshapes parts of light pulses and advances them ahead of where they would have been had they been left to travel unaltered through a vacuum. The new method could be used to improve the timing of communications signals and to investigate the propagation of quantum correlations.
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In four-wave mixing, researchers send "seed" pulses of laser light into a heated cell containing atomic rubidium vapor along with a separate "pump" beam at a different frequency. The vapor amplifies the seed pulse and shifts its peak forward, making it superluminal. At the same time, photons from the inserted beams interact with the vapor to generate a second pulse called the "conjugate." Its peak, too, can travel faster or slower depending on how the laser is tuned and the conditions inside the gain medium. (Credit: NIST)
According to Einstein's special theory of relativity, light traveling in a vacuum is the universal speed limit. No information can travel faster than light.

But there's kind of a loophole. A short burst of light arrives as a sort of (usually) symmetric curve like a bell curve in statistics. The leading edge of that curve can't exceed the speed of light, but the main hump, the peak of the pulse, can be skewed forward or backward, arriving sooner or later than it normally would.

Recent experiments have generated "uninformed" faster-than-light pulses by amplifying the leading edge of the pulse and attenuating, or cutting off, the back end. The method introduces a great deal of noise with no great increase in the apparent speed. Four-wave mixing produces cleaner, less noisy pulses with a greater increase in speed by "re-phasing" or rearranging the light waves that make up the pulse.

In four-wave mixing, researchers send 200-nanosecond-long "seed" pulses of laser light into a heated cell containing atomic rubidium vapor along with a separate "pump" beam at a different frequency from the seed pulses. The vapor amplifies the seed pulse and shifts its peak forward so that it becomes superluminal. At the same time, photons from the inserted beams interact with the vapor to generate a second pulse, called the "conjugate" because of its mathematical relationship to the seed. Its peak, too, can travel faster or slower depending on how the laser is tuned and the conditions inside the laser.

In the experiment, the pulses' peaks arrived 50 nanoseconds faster than light traveling through a vacuum.

One immediate application that the group would like to explore for this system is quantum discord. Quantum discord mathematically defines the quantum information shared between two correlated systems -- in this case, the seed and conjugate pulses. By performing measurements of quantum discord between fast beams and reference beams, the group hopes to determine how useful this fast light could be for the transmission and processing of quantum information

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 194223.htm
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PostSun May 06, 2012 3:35 pm » by Iamthatiam


Constabul wrote:I look at these articles and see a possible future of mindless humans, whos pineal gland could be attacked by a fungus that causes the cells to rearrange themselves, or alters it with new components, or maybe just solidify it all together.


:D

Now my point here...

Taking into account the existence of Silicon Based lifeforms, instead of the well know Carbon based...Is it plausible to you to assume the Pineal Gland, to be a silicate like structure, where the Holographic aspect of the Brain (Mind), connects?

Silicon based Micro-organisms could be flowing inside the blood stream, disguised as minerals!!!

Until which extent do you believe the Human organism to be Autonomous, in terms of Bio-Electrical/Bio-Chemical stimuli/production? I mean, you provide it with nutrients, and it does the rest, aye? However, you probably studied how it changes information to what is known and visible, and what about the other ranges of existence? Remember that this civilization still narrowed to a small band of existence...Where you can say that the Dark Matter could perfectly well be to another states of matter, as the 'Genetic Trash', to precious informations, undeveloped by this present human body...Narrowed as much 'Horizontaly' as 'Vertically', if you know what I mean!?

This 'Bio-vest' is connected to a different kind of existence through certain points of the body, accordingly!

Thank you, Const., you helped me more than you know!!! :wink:

Doesn't amazes you the idea that everything from certain old Initiatic Schools matches modern descriptions; The number of Dimensions (Strings), and the Sephirotal Tree from Kabbalah, for instance? We could be here for a long time establishing a comparison table!

:cheers:
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PostSun May 06, 2012 6:09 pm » by Shaggietrip


I do hope this post fits the criteria. As most know I am not a scientist. Nor do I have great knowledge on science. But I enjoy reading on it and learning new things via research. Yes I may be a little one tracked minded, On space science that is. Now I am going to curtail the copy pastes at this time in fear that the op may not feel this appropriate for thread.


Now that out of the way. I was looking into Red Shift and came across what I am posting and found it interesting. I hope others do also.




Poster point:

I belive that once a photon has been liberated from an atom it no longer has any velocity in the time dimension. All matter is traveling through spacetime at c, in the case of matter most of the velocity is in the time dimension. When a photon is emitted from an atom it is mearly dropped off in 3D space, standing still in time (as it does) while the rest of the "solid" universe speeds away at c, giving the observer the impression that it is the photon that is moving away at the speed of light.

The photon, being an oscilating electromagnetic wave, appears to any observer wizzing by to be a sine wave, but that is only the view of the observer (similar to the light clock analogy). When the photon is observed close up the sine wave is no longer apparent and the photon now appears as a mass-less point (or particle) Same can be said for all kinds of "raw" energy, this energy cannot travel through time.

____________________

Anothers response:

@ most of the velocity is in the time dimension :

i am toying with a notion that spacetime is made of: time and space, in which space is discrete and in between theese discrete 'points' of space time is building up.http://www.sciencefo...ns/#entry675842

@ standing still in time (as it does) while the rest of the "solid" universe speeds away :

the dilaltion as measured by cosmological redshift is in my oppinion an effect of the buildup of time in a discretely spatial space-time. Again both notion seem similar. But when you say "stands still in time" you are actualy reffering to my "travells ony thru space-dimension of space-time".


______________________


A hypothetical de-synthetisation of spacetime as a synthesys of space and time.

Question: is there space for time? Answer: Only if space is discrete.

The hypothesis:

In spacetime space is discrete, time is a quantity that is building up between points of discretely distributed space. Gravity holds things in place localy, but on the scale beyond gravitational effect, time has an effect of "stretching the spacetime" noticed by cosmological redshift. The universe is getting "bigger", but only in the sense of buildup of time. This gives us infinite time in both directions. The galaxies in this stretching space-time are drifting apart from each other faster than the speed of light, but are not increasing in size themselves, as isnt nothing that is under effect of curvature (gravity) - at the same time as space-time is stretching as measured by cosmological redshift. This is because the building up of time in a spacetime with a discretely distributative space.


Effects listed:

time is infinite in both directions from any point of refference,
space is discrete, travel is discrete
posiibility of no Big Bang at all, or at least no t=0 at all
not necesserely a cyclical neither infinite universe, but certainly infinite time without t=0
or if there is t=0 there is also a posiible one or more t < 0.
time is infinite (limitless) in both future and past
in singularity there is no time, but only localy, there is time (endless) outside of singularities
gravity seems to have the exact opposite effect of time in the discrete-spaced spacetime.
possible cyclical inflation epochs
cosmological redshift beyond Z=1.4 not braking C limit, dillation beyond Z=1.4 effect of adding up of quantity of time
@ has been liberated from an atom it no longer has any velocity in the time dimension
in my hypothesis it seems that curvature (gravity) in its ultimate form is devoid or absent of time, so when the photon is released it becomes a light-particle outside the curvature. Infact it has no more velocity in time dimension. But solemnly travells thru discrete spatial dimention, while time itself keeps on building up between theeese points of space it travells thru.

@the rest of the "solid" universe speeds away at c,
it is "speeding away at greater than c, as measured by cosmological redshift", the space-time is growing faster than C (observed from and by an system within curvature - with gravity). And again, similar, what you call "solid" universe i call "has curvature or has gravity"

@this energy cannot travel through time.

perhapse noting could travel thru time (infact i think C prohibits that), but if it wanted to it must be a part of a curvature system (must have gravity), since if anything was to travel thru time, it shoud itself be outside time. I think gravity or curvature is absent of time, if not so, objects within curvature would stretch with the space-time dillation. If we allow a discrete distribution of "space-points" and define travel as traveling thru space, we can reconcile the problem of greater than c dillation as measured by cosmological redshift and confirm that at the same nothing can travel faster than buildup of time in our hypothesysed space-time. time is enddlesly being built up, hence stretching spacetime indefinately, while space travel is only possible at max C and only outside curvature the limit itself can be achieved.

it would at first appear paradoxical to say: a particel traverses spacetime thru discrete points of space A,B,C,... while time is "stretching" the space-time as a whole. It would appear to present us with two times. The time of spacetime (with discrete spatial dimension) and time measured in travel thru discrete-space. But it is not so. In the presence of curvature, the whole body traverses space-time, spatialy discrete and continuously thru time. Comparing motion and activity on scales beyond the reach of gravity, we get the effect of forementioned faster than c dillation, because space-time is stretching faster than "C", since time is infinately being added as a quantity and C is a constant.

So, when your particle had bene 'liberated' from the atom, we could say it exited a body within curvature and is emmiting (travelling) thru spacetime (literally appearing in point A, dissapearing in point A, appering in point B etc.). The atom keeps on traveling thru space time as part of a curvature system (has gravity), and is not effected by the stretching of spacetime, that is what is observed with cosmological red-shift does not "stretch" the atom itself, since in curvature time does not exist. The photon, as a masseless entity however must travel at a constant speed of c. But in between forementioned discrete space-points (A,B,Etc), time itself is increasing. So to look at this photon from an distant galaxy which is drifting avay from our it would seem it is not infact catching up with the dillation. And that infact is a observed fact.


Source: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/66200-a-space-time-with-discrete-space-and-infinite-time-in-both-directions/




How Can Galaxies Travel Faster Than Light?


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PostTue May 08, 2012 5:50 am » by Constabul


Iamthatiam wrote:
Constabul wrote:I look at these articles and see a possible future of mindless humans, whos pineal gland could be attacked by a fungus that causes the cells to rearrange themselves, or alters it with new components, or maybe just solidify it all together.


:D

Now my point here...

Taking into account the existence of Silicon Based lifeforms, instead of the well know Carbon based...Is it plausible to you to assume the Pineal Gland, to be a silicate like structure, where the Holographic aspect of the Brain (Mind), connects?


You are asking a vary difficult question, As i've mentioned before chemistry is more my fathers subject. Tho I will go as far as i can with it.

My initial question becomes, are Silicon chemical structures not only interchangeable but able to bind with Carbon based structures? Indeed they can, the biggest factor with carbon being able to bind with many things is because of four valence electrons that work on an atomic scale. Creating chemical bonds.
Silicon has these four valence electrons too, and science has been aware of it for a long time, so to has it been the basis for many sci fi shows.

That being said, the pineal gland as far as i can tell is carbon/organic in composition, But, as we have discusses to some degree, that chemical make up can not only be altered through bio engineering, but by absorption methods too. The pineal gland is for some reason, a target of fluoride accumulation.


The soft tissue of the adult pineal gland contains more fluoride than any other soft tissue in the body - a level of fluoride (~300 ppm) capable of inhibiting enzymes.

The pineal gland also contains hard tissue (hyroxyapatite crystals), and this hard tissue accumulates more fluoride (up to 21,000 ppm) than any other hard tissue in the body (e.g. teeth and bone).

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/pineal/#hard
There is a lot of informative info on that site, on the fluoride subject.

SO, while i can not say directly there is the link you purpose, I can find evidences to support some aspects of the idea. Fluoride and silicon complement one another well. Take for consideration,

Organic synthesis
Fluoride reagents are significant in synthetic organic chemistry. Due to the affinity of silicon for fluoride, and the ability of silicon to expand its coordination number, silyl ether protecting groups can be easily removed by the fluoride sources such as sodium fluoride and tetra-n-butylammonium fluoride (TBAF). The Si-F linkage is one of the strongest single bonds. In contrast, other silyl halides are easily hydrolyzed.


In conjunction with the before quoted material. I can not say that it is made of silicon, but it certianly is an attractant for fluoride, Which is a friendly component of silicon. That being said, there have been large campaigns to push fluoride onto the public for years.

Already we use silicon in the body in many ways, some obvious like breast implants others more obscure like fabricating kidneys.

As to the Holographic connections.. In ways yes, in ways no. I feel like, to over think the subject takes something away from it. If i am keying off the same connotations of what Holographic aspects relates to?

Which to some extent includes not only our perceived perceptions but the reality that they are not our perceptions. While it can be explained by scientific understanding and discoveries, it is a fairly "hypothesized" region of reality. Subjective to the objective material worlds scoffs and ridicule.

Now add connections to the pineal gland as a catalyst of interaction... I dunno, maybe, but i believe there are other "unknown" aspects waiting to be discovered as instruments of measurements improve.
That is not dodging the questions as much as admitting it is truly beyond me at this point.
But only at this point. I could drive right off the metaphysical bridge right now, but am trying to keep it Scientific :D





Iamthatiam wrote:Silicon based Micro-organisms could be flowing inside the blood stream, disguised as minerals!!!

Until which extent do you believe the Human organism to be Autonomous, in terms of Bio-Electrical/Bio-Chemical stimuli/production? I mean, you provide it with nutrients, and it does the rest, aye? However, you probably studied how it changes information to what is known and visible, and what about the other ranges of existence? Remember that this civilization still narrowed to a small band of existence...Where you can say that the Dark Matter could perfectly well be to another states of matter, as the 'Genetic Trash', to precious informations, undeveloped by this present human body...Narrowed as much 'Horizontaly' as 'Vertically', if you know what I mean!?

This 'Bio-vest' is connected to a different kind of existence through certain points of the body, accordingly!


In regards to Blood etc. Nano Tech is out there that does just that, when you think of other forms of life like bacteria, or virus' they too are binding to blood cells. So i would only assume it possible that other forms of life, on a silicon level, could do the same, or develop in a way in which a symbiotic relationship was essential.

Autonomous.. Well, we are vary dependent on the chemical nature of our surroundings in a number of ways, and while we feel independent. We are vary much connected to the well being of other "things" to give us opportunity to continue life. More so subconscious reflexes will override conscious leading us in some ways.

I think the possibility of complex silicon life opens the door to the train of thought to creating vessels that could be independent/autonomous.
As to some other level of connection, yes I think there is a possibility for this to be just one manifestation of energy/matter. Tho I can not say. Even with the wealth of accumulated knowledge, I do not believe an individual would be armed well enough to outline the answer to this question.
I do not think it is unanswerable, I think it is more simplistic.


That being said, I do believe there are aspects of this "Bio vest" that can allow for interaction on a uncommon level, as levels stand now. Some of this is random, but i think to some can be harnessed.
Going to need some more specifics, to really try to get to the root of an idea, as applicable and understandable by science.



Iamthatiam wrote:Thank you, Const., you helped me more than you know!!! :wink:

Doesn't amazes you the idea that everything from certain old Initiatic Schools matches modern descriptions; The number of Dimensions (Strings), and the Sephirotal Tree from Kabbalah, for instance? We could be here for a long time establishing a comparison table!


:cheers:


You are quite welcome man, don't soak up all those Brazilian sun rays before i get a chance to get there :mrgreen:

And yes, there does seem to be underlying metaphors in ancient texts and knowledge that can be applied to current knowledge. I hate to even admit it, but looking over some biblical phrases, i see less a divine connection, and more an attempt to convey a knowledge likely not even understood by the more recent writers. Tho seemingly is there.
:cheers:
Don't Ask this is a Science thread!


@ Shaggietrip, going to look over the info, Will reply as i can. I did recently provide an article talking about similar, but different subject http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 194223.htm
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PostTue May 08, 2012 12:08 pm » by Constabul


Robot Reveals the Inner Workings of Brain Cells: Automated Way to Record Electrical Activity Inside Neurons in the Living Brain
ScienceDaily (May 6, 2012) —Gaining access to the inner workings of a neuron in the living brain offers a wealth of useful information: its patterns of electrical activity, its shape, even a profile of which genes are turned on at a given moment. However, achieving this entry is such a painstaking task that it is considered an art form; it is so difficult to learn that only a small number of labs in the world practice it.
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Researchers at MIT and the Georgia Institute of Technology have developed a way to automate a process called whole-cell patch clamping, which involves bringing a tiny hollow glass pipette in contact with the cell membrane of a neuron, then opening up a small pore in the membrane to record the electrical activity within the cell. (Credit: Sputnik Animation and MIT McGovern Institute)

But that could soon change: Researchers at MIT and the Georgia Institute of Technology have developed a way to automate the process of finding and recording information from neurons in the living brain. The researchers have shown that a robotic arm guided by a cell-detecting computer algorithm can identify and record from neurons in the living mouse brain with better accuracy and speed than a human experimenter.

The new automated process eliminates the need for months of training and provides long-sought information about living cells' activities. Using this technique, scientists could classify the thousands of different types of cells in the brain, map how they connect to each other, and figure out how diseased cells differ from normal cells.

The project is a collaboration between the labs of Ed Boyden, associate professor of biological engineering and brain and cognitive sciences at MIT, and Craig Forest, an assistant professor in the George W. Woodruff School of Mechanical Engineering at Georgia Tech.

"Our team has been interdisciplinary from the beginning, and this has enabled us to bring the principles of precision machine design to bear upon the study of the living brain," Forest says. His graduate student, Suhasa Kodandaramaiah, spent the past two years as a visiting student at MIT, and is the lead author of the study, which appears in the May 6 issue of Nature Methods.

The method could be particularly useful in studying brain disorders such as schizophrenia, Parkinson's disease, autism and epilepsy, Boyden says. "In all these cases, a molecular description of a cell that is integrated with [its] electrical and circuit properties … has remained elusive," says Boyden, who is a member of MIT's Media Lab and McGovern Institute for Brain Research. "If we could really describe how diseases change molecules in specific cells within the living brain, it might enable better drug targets to be found."

Kodandaramaiah, Boyden and Forest set out to automate a 30-year-old technique known as whole-cell patch clamping, which involves bringing a tiny hollow glass pipette in contact with the cell membrane of a neuron, then opening up a small pore in the membrane to record the electrical activity within the cell. This skill usually takes a graduate student or postdoc several months to learn.

Kodandaramaiah spent about four months learning the manual patch-clamp technique, giving him an appreciation for its difficulty. "When I got reasonably good at it, I could sense that even though it is an art form, it can be reduced to a set of stereotyped tasks and decisions that could be executed by a robot," he says.

To that end, Kodandaramaiah and his colleagues built a robotic arm that lowers a glass pipette into the brain of an anesthetized mouse with micrometer accuracy. As it moves, the pipette monitors a property called electrical impedance -- a measure of how difficult it is for electricity to flow out of the pipette. If there are no cells around, electricity flows and impedance is low. When the tip hits a cell, electricity can't flow as well and impedance goes up.

The pipette takes two-micrometer steps, measuring impedance 10 times per second. Once it detects a cell, it can stop instantly, preventing it from poking through the membrane. "This is something a robot can do that a human can't," Boyden says.

Once the pipette finds a cell, it applies suction to form a seal with the cell's membrane. Then, the electrode can break through the membrane to record the cell's internal electrical activity. The robotic system can detect cells with 90 percent accuracy, and establish a connection with the detected cells about 40 percent of the time.

The researchers also showed that their method can be used to determine the shape of the cell by injecting a dye; they are now working on extracting a cell's contents to read its genetic profile.

Development of the new technology was funded primarily by the National Institutes of Health, the National Science Foundation and the MIT Media Lab.

The researchers recently created a startup company, Neuromatic Devices, to commercialize the device.

The researchers are now working on scaling up the number of electrodes so they can record from multiple neurons at a time, potentially allowing them to determine how different parts of the brain are connected.

They are also working with collaborators to start classifying the thousands of types of neurons found in the brain. This "parts list" for the brain would identify neurons not only by their shape -- which is the most common means of classification -- but also by their electrical activity and genetic profile.

"If you really want to know what a neuron is, you can look at the shape, and you can look at how it fires. Then, if you pull out the genetic information, you can really know what's going on," Forest says. "Now you know everything. That's the whole picture."

Boyden says he believes this is just the beginning of using robotics in neuroscience to study living animals. A robot like this could potentially be used to infuse drugs at targeted points in the brain, or to deliver gene therapy vectors. He hopes it will also inspire neuroscientists to pursue other kinds of robotic automation -- such as in optogenetics, the use of light to perturb targeted neural circuits and determine the causal role that neurons play in brain functions.

Neuroscience is one of the few areas of biology in which robots have yet to make a big impact, Boyden says. "The genome project was done by humans and a giant set of robots that would do all the genome sequencing. In directed evolution or in synthetic biology, robots do a lot of the molecular biology," he says. "In other parts of biology, robots are essential."

Other co-authors include MIT grad student Giovanni Talei Franzesi and MIT postdoc Brian Y. Chow.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 160117.htm
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PostTue May 08, 2012 3:19 pm » by Iamthatiam


Constabul wrote:
Iamthatiam wrote:
Constabul wrote:I look at these articles and see a possible future of mindless humans, whos pineal gland could be attacked by a fungus that causes the cells to rearrange themselves, or alters it with new components, or maybe just solidify it all together.


What about the human mind being 'highjacked' by third parties? :think:

Const, my friend, I'd like you to know that despite of what it might seem, Im here trying to bring 'down' to scientifical grounds, this that you may call 'Initiatic Knowledge', and not the contrary, where I'd be diverting your thread from purely scientifical purposes....To me, this is a laboratory, where I can exercize my utmost cup of tea under the light of your scientifical knowledge, which is a privilege, I must add, however, if you'd like me to leave this thread inside more empirical streams, I would not be offended at all :flop:

For instance, I'm dealing with the hypothesis of the Pineal Gland serving to a purpose yet to be understood by this present civilization...That of it being a point of contact with aspects of Humans which could be better called 'Spiritual'! Substancial aspects, part of the whole complex Human existence, interpreted as 'Brain Stimuli' by the science, though! To me, these aspects, usually translated as merely Bio-chem/Bio-electrical impulses causing the Brain to interpret it as being 'real', are, as a matter of fact, Brain Responses to events happening at levels of existence mostly unknown to the vast majority of Humankind, being, however, perceived by many 'spiritualists' as complementary part of this Physical existence, and/or a distant existence, playing it's 'hypothetical' part beyond the borders of Philosophical concepts...



:D

Now my point here...

Taking into account the existence of Silicon Based lifeforms, instead of the well know Carbon based...Is it plausible to you to assume the Pineal Gland, to be a silicate like structure, where the Holographic aspect of the Brain (Mind), connects?


You are asking a vary difficult question, As i've mentioned before chemistry is more my fathers subject. Tho I will go as far as i can with it.

My initial question becomes, are Silicon chemical structures not only interchangeable but able to bind with Carbon based structures? Indeed they can, the biggest factor with carbon being able to bind with many things is because of four valence electrons that work on an atomic scale. Creating chemical bonds.
Silicon has these four valence electrons too, and science has been aware of it for a long time, so to has it been the basis for many sci fi shows.

That being said, the pineal gland as far as i can tell is carbon/organic in composition, But, as we have discusses to some degree, that chemical make up can not only be altered through bio engineering, but by absorption methods too. The pineal gland is for some reason, a target of fluoride accumulation.


The soft tissue of the adult pineal gland contains more fluoride than any other soft tissue in the body - a level of fluoride (~300 ppm) capable of inhibiting enzymes.

The pineal gland also contains hard tissue (hyroxyapatite crystals), and this hard tissue accumulates more fluoride (up to 21,000 ppm) than any other hard tissue in the body (e.g. teeth and bone).

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/pineal/#hard
There is a lot of informative info on that site, on the fluoride subject.

SO, while i can not say directly there is the link you purpose, I can find evidences to support some aspects of the idea. Fluoride and silicon complement one another well. Take for consideration,

Organic synthesis
Fluoride reagents are significant in synthetic organic chemistry. Due to the affinity of silicon for fluoride, and the ability of silicon to expand its coordination number, silyl ether protecting groups can be easily removed by the fluoride sources such as sodium fluoride and tetra-n-butylammonium fluoride (TBAF). The Si-F linkage is one of the strongest single bonds. In contrast, other silyl halides are easily hydrolyzed.


In conjunction with the before quoted material. I can not say that it is made of silicon, but it certianly is an attractant for fluoride, Which is a friendly component of silicon. That being said, there have been large campaigns to push fluoride onto the public for years.

Already we use silicon in the body in many ways, some obvious like breast implants others more obscure like fabricating kidneys.

[color=#FF0000][b]The above information only adds to my initial stance regarding you, where you could be very helpful in finding more consistent grounds to what I stated before about be trying to bring down certain levels of existence!


As to the Holographic connections.. In ways yes, in ways no. I feel like, to over think the subject takes something away from it. If i am keying off the same connotations of what Holographic aspects relates to?

Here...Perspective might be a bitch!!! :mrgreen:

It is discussed by theorists many models regarding this visible Universe being of a Holographic nature..

But, considering this Physical reality as being the tangible substance seeing through the ones living under it's limitations, I address to the Mind as a 'Holographic' aspect of the Brain, where we can assume it to be of a more Ethereal nature, also yet to be fully understood; Beyond the borders of this perceived existence...

Whether one prefer to consider it under this scope, or as being a 'Alucinatory' part of Human existence, where the Bio-chems & etc plays them parts, makes the whole lot of difference...And not by Ideological reasons, but only for mechanical purposes of this covo! I surely will respect either way!


:cheers:

Which to some extent includes not only our perceived perceptions but the reality that they are not our perceptions. While it can be explained by scientific understanding and discoveries, it is a fairly "hypothesized" region of reality. Subjective to the objective material worlds scoffs and ridicule.

Now add connections to the pineal gland as a catalyst of interaction... I dunno, maybe, but i believe there are other "unknown" aspects waiting to be discovered as instruments of measurements improve.
That is not dodging the questions as much as admitting it is truly beyond me at this point.
But only at this point. I could drive right off the metaphysical bridge right now, but am trying to keep it Scientific :D
[/color][/b]

Like I said, you earned my friendship, and I will leave this thread to more empirical realities, if you like! After all, it'd be certainly selfish of me to try and push it towards grounds that might be only benefiting myself!


Iamthatiam wrote:Silicon based Micro-organisms could be flowing inside the blood stream, disguised as minerals!!!

Until which extent do you believe the Human organism to be Autonomous, in terms of Bio-Electrical/Bio-Chemical stimuli/production? I mean, you provide it with nutrients, and it does the rest, aye? However, you probably studied how it changes information to what is known and visible, and what about the other ranges of existence? Remember that this civilization still narrowed to a small band of existence...Where you can say that the Dark Matter could perfectly well be to another states of matter, as the 'Genetic Trash', to precious informations, undeveloped by this present human body...Narrowed as much 'Horizontaly' as 'Vertically', if you know what I mean!?

This 'Bio-vest' is connected to a different kind of existence through certain points of the body, accordingly!


In regards to Blood etc. Nano Tech is out there that does just that, when you think of other forms of life like bacteria, or virus' they too are binding to blood cells. So i would only assume it possible that other forms of life, on a silicon level, could do the same, or develop in a way in which a symbiotic relationship was essential.

Autonomous.. Well, we are vary dependent on the chemical nature of our surroundings in a number of ways, and while we feel independent. We are vary much connected to the well being of other "things" to give us opportunity to continue life. More so subconscious reflexes will override conscious leading us in some ways.

I think the possibility of complex silicon life opens the door to the train of thought to creating vessels that could be independent/autonomous.
As to some other level of connection, yes I think there is a possibility for this to be just one manifestation of energy/matter. Tho I can not say. Even with the wealth of accumulated knowledge, I do not believe an individual would be armed well enough to outline the answer to this question.
I do not think it is unanswerable, I think it is more simplistic.


That being said, I do believe there are aspects of this "Bio vest" that can allow for interaction on a uncommon level, as levels stand now. Some of this is random, but i think to some can be harnessed.
Going to need some more specifics, to really try to get to the root of an idea, as applicable and understandable by science.


My direction here takes it away from this proposal, since it points towards something I believe was better understood by Humankind, once, and got lost through many unfortunate events crossed by this civilization...


Iamthatiam wrote:Thank you, Const., you helped me more than you know!!! :wink:

Doesn't amazes you the idea that everything from certain old Initiatic Schools matches modern descriptions; The number of Dimensions (Strings), and the Sephirotal Tree from Kabbalah, for instance? We could be here for a long time establishing a comparison table!


:cheers:


You are quite welcome man, don't soak up all those Brazilian sun rays before i get a chance to get there :mrgreen:

[color=#FF0000][b]Are you really coming here? If so, we need to meet, bro! :D

And yes, there does seem to be underlying metaphors in ancient texts and knowledge that can be applied to current knowledge. I hate to even admit it, but looking over some biblical phrases, i see less a divine connection, and more an attempt to convey a knowledge likely not even understood by the more recent writers. Tho seemingly is there.
:cheers:
Don't Ask this is a Science thread! [/b]



LOL...I will resign!

Seriously, tho, thanks again man, very helpful directions, you pointed out to me..And yes, there is much to be brought down to this reality, before this 'reality' could take of to higher grounds of existence, and a wider range of being...Scientifically speakin :wink:
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PostWed May 09, 2012 2:39 am » by Constabul


Iamthatiam wrote:What about the human mind being 'highjacked' by third parties? :think:

Const, my friend, I'd like you to know that despite of what it might seem, Im here trying to bring 'down' to scientifical grounds, this that you may call 'Initiatic Knowledge', and not the contrary, where I'd be diverting your thread from purely scientifical purposes....To me, this is a laboratory, where I can exercize my utmost cup of tea under the light of your scientifical knowledge, which is a privilege, I must add, however, if you'd like me to leave this thread inside more empirical streams, I would not be offended at all

For instance, I'm dealing with the hypothesis of the Pineal Gland serving to a purpose yet to be understood by this present civilization...That of it being a point of contact with aspects of Humans which could be better called 'Spiritual'! Substancial aspects, part of the whole complex Human existence, interpreted as 'Brain Stimuli' by the science, though! To me, these aspects, usually translated as merely Bio-chem/Bio-electrical impulses causing the Brain to interpret it as being 'real', are, as a matter of fact, Brain Responses to events happening at levels of existence mostly unknown to the vast majority of Humankind, being, however, perceived by many 'spiritualists' as complementary part of this Physical existence, and/or a distant existence, playing it's 'hypothetical' part beyond the borders of Philosophical concepts...

Here...Perspective might be a bitch!!!

It is discussed by theorists many models regarding this visible Universe being of a Holographic nature..

But, considering this Physical reality as being the tangible substance seeing through the ones living under it's limitations, I address to the Mind as a 'Holographic' aspect of the Brain, where we can assume it to be of a more Ethereal nature, also yet to be fully understood; Beyond the borders of this perceived existence...

Whether one prefer to consider it under this scope, or as being a 'Alucinatory' part of Human existence, where the Bio-chems & etc plays them parts, makes the whole lot of difference...And not by Ideological reasons, but only for mechanical purposes of this covo! I surely will respect either way!

Like I said, you earned my friendship, and I will leave this thread to more empirical realities, if you like! After all, it'd be certainly selfish of me to try and push it towards grounds that might be only benefiting myself!

My direction here takes it away from this proposal, since it points towards something I believe was better understood by Humankind, once, and got lost through many unfortunate events crossed by this civilization...

LOL...I will resign!

Seriously, tho, thanks again man, very helpful directions, you pointed out to me..And yes, there is much to be brought down to this reality, before this 'reality' could take of to higher grounds of existence, and a wider range of being...Scientifically speakin



Thank you for the courtesies you have afforded me, much appreciated.
I'm not sure if it is a happenstance of perception, or the skeptics zealousness that has given you a bad taste for the term Science, or the principles by which it operates. You are not the only person I know who views science in the way you eluded.

My perception of it is much different, as science is a tool to which we can measure this reality, holographic or not. Certainly limitations of technical means is a hurdle that is constantly being worked on, But due to lacking the proper instruments to measure by, does not mean there is nothing to measure, nor that we will never be able to measure it.

While we are finding new ways to understand our reality, Science has opened the door (much as you mentioned) to more "expanded" ways of thought. You consider the fields of Quantum anythings. fifty to sixty years ago it was but a blip on the horizon, where as now countries have spent billions to build CERN (Large Hadron Collider ) just for the theorized prospect of detecting particular particles.
These are monumental leaps my friend. It may or may not go as theorized but new understanding and the beginnings of new paths of exploration have been initiated.

These sort of application started much longer ago then the Greeks, Egyptians or Sumerians. As you mentioned, basically eluding to the rise and fall of civilization numerous times. I'm on the same page as you in this regard, i believe.

But much as you already mentioned this indeed is a laboratory of sorts. As many sciences start as an Idea, then it becomes a discussion, that leads to innovations in the ways of testing these ideas, and the eventual directions the discussions take us.

I welcome your feedback, as I said in the Opening of this thread,

Constabul wrote:All things Science, from the finite to the infinite. A series of discussions and videos talking about the great expansions in knowledge.


My main purpose in this thread is to provide only a snip it of information that is being discovered on almost a daily basis. None of this is meant to reflect on anyone beliefs or intuitions. It is only a place that the greatness of human ingenuity can be displayed.

You look at a few of the articles posted here, and those proposals would have been laughed at by the main stream just 15 years ago. That is not science causing that disconnect, it is people using science as a vessel for agendas, Like religion or spirituality, for which similar arguments can be made.

In your proposed ideas, I approached it from every scientific frame of reference my limited knowledge could allow, not to dissuade or deflate your idea, but to try and hit it from angles that even the skeptics would have to stop and think on.
My personal opinions generally vary from my written word. Tho my goals (if you can call it that) are not based in proving I'm right, your wrong etc.

Indeed, i think it is plausible for "third party" control, to which the Zombie ants provide an open door to further discussion, add to that the level of understanding that is now had, in the fields of bio engineering etc, and a vary in depth discussion has had the ground work laid to build from. In much the way we are now.

The pineal gland is a touchy subject, as different groups have tried to hijack it for agenda purposes.
From the time i started looking into the gland, till now. Perception of it functions has changes a number of times, and while it can be linked to a number of factors dealing in life, I also believe there are other factors not yet measurable.
Just because we can monitor the activity of the brain while under influences of similar chemicals, or the actual activation of the gland itself does not take away from the metaphysical affect it is having on the human consciousness.

When we see this information, and understand the chemical reaction, does not mean the discovery stops there. Many believe that this sort of interaction between the gland, or similar chemicals like it, and the effects on the human psyche gave rise language, religion and all the effects that flow from these things.

I stay away from certain subjects not because i view them as unprovable, or irrelevant. But because my point of reference or knowledge pool is limited. As such with Holographic reality, Science(people) has given methods of which to observe reality beyond our normal senses, taste, touch, sight, smell, hearing, intuition.. two of the biggest normally recognized being, sound pitches beyond our hearing capabilities, or visual spectrum that can be made into nifty goggles.
Theses are minor examples of our reality being beyond what we can normally observe. Now think of the atomic to subatomic scales, anti matter, light and energy, matter etc, and there is a whole realm of observation that is beyond "normal" spectrum.

Yet we are discovering more and more, none of it is finalized, and a new method of measurement or understanding, could turn whole fields on their heads. Not to say that all that work was for naught, as it lead to a further understanding to which we could say, This is not correct.

Anyway man, i'm starting to ramble. I do invite you to continue to contribute to this thread, in a "positive" way. :mrgreen:
The whole purpose was to try to influence some level of discussion on the nature of reality, the sciences that are leading the way, and just really cool discoveries. Articles and videos are great, but without actual conversation. It really serves little purpose, that the original sites do not already provide.

Plus to some new members, it might actually seem like we do more then just argue here at DTV.
To which, arguing if noah loaded ants of various types on to the ark, or what color jesus' man diaper was is easy. Discussing the nature of reality in not only scientific but real world experiences, now that is a good contribution.

Stay safe mang
:cheers:

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PostWed May 09, 2012 2:55 am » by Perronick


How can this futuristic manifesto explain a feeling? Pile on, folks. We know nothing :lol:

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PostWed May 09, 2012 3:01 am » by Shaggietrip


@ Shaggietrip, going to look over the info, Will reply as i can. I did recently provide an article talking about similar, but different subject http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 194223.htm
:cheers:

Read more: science-t71017-60.html#ixzz1uKTBdhjf




Thank you for the response. I had seen the article you posted.



There is much that I read into such subjects. Curves, waves,fields and magnetics. Sound comes with it. Those that think there is no sound in space just have not researched.

Bells like the Nazi ufo. Waves like sound or water. One can ride a wave. Magnetics which from the age of 14 really believe is the key to transportation.

Waves like the earth in its wave ~~~~~~~
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Sorry to post my seemingly simple thoughts but I think we are getting closer to understanding and discovering many new things.



Love the thread stay well. :cheers:
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Star watchers,Sun,Moon or just space in interest. https://www.darkskywatcher.com/dsw74.html


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