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 Post subject: Re: Seriously guys enough already!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:54 pm 
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Well Cornbread, it's hard to see how it could be much worse when most of the world's population are undernourished, penniless - debt ridden in fact, and don't have access to clean water.

The thing about revolutions is: they are followed by counter-revolutions and, although much of what was won is taken back, things never go back to where they were before. I'm talking about England, France, America and Russia. Revolution has, in my opinion, a definable role in the evolution of human society and we might just be overdue another one. I doubt, though, we're going to start it on DTV but you never know.

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 Post subject: Re: Seriously guys enough already!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:09 pm 
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Hey cornbread...you make a good point about getting off the grid and stop consuming so much...I totally agree with that....
One of the best ways to protest any government is not to use thier services..ie...city water, electricity ect....There are ways to harness these things without the need for government resources. It may take a bit of money to get it all done at first, but it would be well worth it in the long run...If the majority of the people provided for themselves, all these government run services would not be needed and all the money they make from them would stay in our pockets.
The "pocket book" protest seems a bit more rational than a full on revolution now that you mention it.
I guess the main point here is....we can't keep going on living like we are....high consumption, opressive governments, limited resources, unjustified laws.....there must be a change for the better or we will all perish under our own weight. How, when and to what end is up for debate....but something will happen...for better or worse
The path that the human race has chosen is unsustainable....either we will wake up and alter our path for the better, or we'll blindly follow the one we are on till our deaths.

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 Post subject: Re: Seriously guys enough already!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:13 pm 
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proto wrote:
theduck wrote:

As for Proto's advice I don't get what that would achieve realistically, what should we do man? stop having sugar in our tea lol done that and nothings changed :D


lol , wow stop having sugar in our tea?! chill down man you don't want the
system at your throat with such bold acts of resistance :P
LMAO!
lets see which idea is more practical and realistic ,a revolution ?
or changing the way you interact with your surroundings ?
What do you mean by changing the way you act with your surroundings?
Give me some ideas man...

lets examine this thread in a month and see where this revolution
have lead us,my guess it's just another armchair interweb rebellion
that will lead to nowhere .

And yeh It may lead nowhere but at least its being discussed, no harm in that, YET!

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 Post subject: Re: Seriously guys enough already!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:24 pm 
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ogmios wrote:
Well Cornbread, it's hard to see how it could be much worse when most of the world's population are undernourished, penniless - debt ridden in fact, and don't have access to clean water.

The thing about revolutions is: they are followed by counter-revolutions and, although much of what was won is taken back, things never go back to where they were before. I'm talking about England, France, America and Russia. Revolution has, in my opinion, a definable role in the evolution of human society and we might just be overdue another one. I doubt, though, we're going to start it on DTV but you never know.


Sure, revolutions are a big part of history, and yes, sometimes they are necessary. I just think a lot of us spoiled Westerners have no clue what a civil war would feel like - sure, it sounds exciting and all, but speaking of hungry poor people, let's look at Zimbabwe for a moment.

After years of civil war, in 1980 Mugabe and his people were able to throw out the white people, and rightfully so, in my opinion.

The infrastructure collapsed, Mugabe became a corrupt dictator, and they've been in a sorry mess ever since.

Before you get rid of the bad guys, you better make sure you can handle the situation yourselves.

It's one thing to tear down structures, it's another thing altogether building new ones from scratch.

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 Post subject: Re: Seriously guys enough already!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:25 pm 
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samkenman wrote:
Hey cornbread...you make a good point about getting off the grid and stop consuming so much...I totally agree with that....
One of the best ways to protest any government is not to use thier services..ie...city water, electricity ect....There are ways to harness these things without the need for government resources. It may take a bit of money to get it all done at first, but it would be well worth it in the long run...If the majority of the people provided for themselves, all these government run services would not be needed and all the money they make from them would stay in our pockets.
The "pocket book" protest seems a bit more rational than a full on revolution now that you mention it.
I guess the main point here is....we can't keep going on living like we are....high consumption, opressive governments, limited resources, unjustified laws.....there must be a change for the better or we will all perish under our own weight. How, when and to what end is up for debate....but something will happen...for better or worse
The path that the human race has chosen is unsustainable....either we will wake up and alter our path for the better, or we'll blindly follow the one we are on till our deaths.

:flop:

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 Post subject: Re: Seriously guys enough already!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:26 pm 
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cornbread714 wrote:
samkenman wrote:
Harnessing the good will of the people is a definite must! No it is not naive. If...correction...WHEN this goes down there will be plenty of folks ready to die for it. I'm sure everyone will have thier own personal martyrs to stand behind.

Things are getting worse all the time here in the states, and across the world....
It is just a matter of time before the people rize up and take back what is righfully thiers. It WILL not be pretty and :sunny: ...the streets WILL run red

Safety in numbers.. :hugging: .so long as everyone wears a helmet :nwo:


Die for what? Even on this site we can't agree about anything.
True but we could agree to march, even if it has no effect it would be a fairly bold statement
I'm so tired of people talking about how the "people will rize up".
True but you may just need to get some kip man :D
What happens once you dismantle the government? What happens to the nukes, the money, private property, the land itself?
I don't think it should be totally dismantled not YET anyway, we should just make some demands, for instance, release ALL UFO files now! not take years doing it..
Give us access to ALL the stuff in the basement of the British museum so we can get people to study it..etc..
Hold MP's accountable immediately for their CRIMES against their country, just like we would be hold accountable IMMEDIATELY if we committed fraud..

Who makes the new rules and what will they be? What would there be to stop, for instance, factions of the military becoming warlords?
Stick with common law or what ever it is, actually enforce laws lol
How do you oversee the "power" being peacefully transferred to the "people"? (BTW, that sounds like Communism, is that what you guys mean?)
No transfer just actual transparency and they should actually listen to what people want because technically we are already in power..
Oh yeah, and we'll get those nice Hells Angels to help out. That'll be great.
You'de be surprised at how nice a lot of them are, were all just people after all, those Harley's aren't cheap man lol
Do you actually think some governmental overthrow (bloody or not) is going to solve your problems even if it were remotely feasible?
It will show them who's boss, everyone(the whole country) should have been marching after the expenses scandal..
Put it this way, if it gets bad enough to where people are willing to take on their own leadership in this way, then that's a signal we are headed for a terrible bloodbath that will leave us in a much worse position than we are in now.
Probably man..
Get real. If you care about changing the world, start with yourself and quit being a consumer. Get off the grid. Are you even ready for that?
Sounds good but we can't all do that...I live in a flat man so I for one couldn't get off the grid YET, it also costs a shed load...we'de be lucky to get people to buy a £5 V mask lol as for people taking a week off work I just don't believe that will happen..
While you're at it, read a book called Player Piano by Kurt Vonnegut. You won't find any answers but he makes some good points concerning revolutions. :sunny:
No time :D
(Please don't take this personally, anyone. I understand the frustration. I'm not claiming to have any answers either. Just more questions...)

Postulation is good though no?

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 Post subject: Re: Seriously guys enough already!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:31 pm 
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theduck wrote:
cornbread714 wrote:
Die for what? Even on this site we can't agree about anything.
True but we could agree to march, even if it has no effect it would be a fairly bold statement
I'm so tired of people talking about how the "people will rize up".
True but you may just need to get some kip man :D
What happens once you dismantle the government? What happens to the nukes, the money, private property, the land itself?
I don't think it should be totally dismantled not YET anyway, we should just make some demands, for instance, release ALL UFO files now! not take years doing it..
Give us access to ALL the stuff in the basement of the British museum so we can get people to study it..etc..
Hold MP's accountable immediately for their CRIMES against their country, just like we would be hold accountable IMMEDIATELY if we committed fraud..

Who makes the new rules and what will they be? What would there be to stop, for instance, factions of the military becoming warlords?
Stick with common law or what ever it is, actually enforce laws lol
How do you oversee the "power" being peacefully transferred to the "people"? (BTW, that sounds like Communism, is that what you guys mean?)
No transfer just actual transparency and they should actually listen to what people want because technically we are already in power..
Oh yeah, and we'll get those nice Hells Angels to help out. That'll be great.
You'de be surprised at how nice a lot of them are, were all just people after all, those Harley's aren't cheap man lol
Do you actually think some governmental overthrow (bloody or not) is going to solve your problems even if it were remotely feasible?
It will show them who's boss, everyone(the whole country) should have been marching after the expenses scandal..
Put it this way, if it gets bad enough to where people are willing to take on their own leadership in this way, then that's a signal we are headed for a terrible bloodbath that will leave us in a much worse position than we are in now.
Probably man..
Get real. If you care about changing the world, start with yourself and quit being a consumer. Get off the grid. Are you even ready for that?
Sounds good but we can't all do that...I live in a flat man so I for one couldn't get off the grid YET, it also costs a shed load...we'de be lucky to get people to buy a £5 V mask lol as for people taking a week off work I just don't believe that will happen..
While you're at it, read a book called Player Piano by Kurt Vonnegut. You won't find any answers but he makes some good points concerning revolutions. :sunny:
No time :D
(Please don't take this personally, anyone. I understand the frustration. I'm not claiming to have any answers either. Just more questions...)

Postulation is good though no?



You got time to play poker but no time to read a book? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Seriously guys enough already!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:35 pm 
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Its not time for a 'proper' revolution just yet, but a big march could be good, as for stopping consuming...all I buy is food, I'm not a shopper...so that's done lol

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 Post subject: Re: Seriously guys enough already!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:38 pm 
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theduck wrote:
What do you mean by changing the way you act with your surroundings?
Give me some ideas man...


i think what cornbread mentioned is a good start :

"Get real. If you care about changing the world, start with yourself and quit being a consumer. Get off the grid. "

further then that, it might sound a bit naive, but what i meant is stop relaying on
greed motivated selfish ambitions , look around ,help those that need help in your
close environment , where you have the most power to effect things ,realize we
are all equal and connected , don't do to anyone things that you don't want anyone to do to you . you know all that spiritual things that you probably heard many times .



theduck wrote:
And yeh It may lead nowhere but at least its being discussed, no harm in that, YET!


true .

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 Post subject: Re: Seriously guys enough already!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:42 pm 
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Lots of great points there cornbread, i think self sustainability should be the ultimate goal for everyone and a logical outcome of this hypothetical revolution. Eliminate the need for the state by ensuring the facilities are in place for everyone to provide for themselves or as a community. Perhaps invoking the principles of the venus project with everyone working for the common goal of advancing humanity. There would obviously be a great deal of issues to deal with after the collapse of government but i am sure the nation with all our heads together could resolve them without the need for outdated concepts like politics.

This has been a great thread so far, purely because it is clear that we CAN envisage a life without governmental rule. And if these bastards cross the line, we've at least been thinking about how we'll sort it/them out.

Peace

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This is just further proof of why conspiracy theories need to be outlawed.When people like YOU have nooses around your necks,have your corpses riddled with bullets holes from a firing squad,or are gassed to death,the world will be a better place.


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