States wishing to peacefully secede from the US

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PostWed Nov 14, 2012 5:51 am » by objectivist51


What is wrong with the people of the United States? Have you all lost your minds? Secession is a civil war in the making. You all do remember the Civil War? This is truly Armageddon, the end of the US, the end of freedom, the end of everything this country has stood for since it's inception. You want to defiantly turn the US into a third world country. Thinks about it. 12 states are in bankruptcy, several more are on the verge and you want to sucede? They can't govern themselves now, how in the hell will they create revenue? Oh of course, borrow it from the Fed. So instead of one country having a problem, we will will have 33. Obviously this is Republican motivation behind this, they lost and are pissed. Well next time bring a real candidate to the party. Hey I'm Independent and didn't vote for either one. Both have an incomplete resume to run a country. So the new political agenda is revealed. The political parties of this country is the exact reason we are in trouble. The system is BROKE. Start your bull shit petitions to change that.

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PostWed Nov 14, 2012 5:55 am » by 99socks


objectivist51 wrote:What is wrong with the people of the United States? Have you all lost your minds? Secession is a civil war in the making. You all do remember the Civil War? This is truly Armageddon, the end of the US, the end of freedom, the end of everything this country has stood for since it's inception. You want to defiantly turn the US into a third world country. Thinks about it. 12 states are in bankruptcy, several more are on the verge and you want to sucede? They can't govern themselves now, how in the hell will they create revenue? Oh of course, borrow it from the Fed. So instead of one country having a problem, we will will have 33. Obviously this is Republican motivation behind this, they lost and are pissed. Well next time bring a real candidate to the party. Hey I'm Independent and didn't vote for either one. Both have an incomplete resume to run a country. So the new political agenda is revealed. The political parties of this country is the exact reason we are in trouble. The system is BROKE. Start your bull shit petitions to change that.



Um, yeah... we know.

No one is actually seceding. We're just trying to make a point.
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/obamas-doj-silent-as-new-black-panthers-leader-incites-violence-in-ferguson_082014








I can't speak about how much of the Constitution is in effect anymore... But thank God we still somewhat resemble a Republic and not a democracy!


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PostWed Nov 14, 2012 7:19 am » by Lowsix


99socks wrote:
objectivist51 wrote:What is wrong with the people of the United States? Have you all lost your minds? Secession is a civil war in the making. You all do remember the Civil War? This is truly Armageddon, the end of the US, the end of freedom, the end of everything this country has stood for since it's inception. You want to defiantly turn the US into a third world country. Thinks about it. 12 states are in bankruptcy, several more are on the verge and you want to sucede? They can't govern themselves now, how in the hell will they create revenue? Oh of course, borrow it from the Fed. So instead of one country having a problem, we will will have 33. Obviously this is Republican motivation behind this, they lost and are pissed. Well next time bring a real candidate to the party. Hey I'm Independent and didn't vote for either one. Both have an incomplete resume to run a country. So the new political agenda is revealed. The political parties of this country is the exact reason we are in trouble. The system is BROKE. Start your bull shit petitions to change that.



Um, yeah... we know.

No one is actually seceding. We're just trying to make a point.


It is astounding how many people don't actually understand this fact.

They voted for you know who.


But there was a funny article in the Dallas Observer...
list of VERy relevant Secession questions, that I, myself would need answered before I signed shit.:

SNIP-----------

Texas is totally on the verge of seceding, after 25,000 people signed a petition calling for the state's removal from the ones that are United. We're pretty much set on sticking it out as Texans, because the only thing worse than living out our existence in a destined-to-fail non-American country governed by a politically untouchable special-needs person would be packing up our apartment again.

But before we re-sign our lease, we have a few quick logistical questions. If you have questions of your own, leave them in the comments.

1. Will I need a passport to get into America?

2. Will we get our own dollar with Rick Perry holding a uterus on it?

3. What the hell is Matthew McConaughey gonna do?

4. Can my gun now carry a gun?

5. Is not wearing the mandatory Texas flag shirt punishable by death, or just life in prison?

6. Is it going to cost 25,000 frequent flier miles to get to Albuquerque now? Ugh.

7. What about the death penalty? Will we only execute retarded people now?

8. Wait, the Mexicans go with America, right? But El Fenix stays?

9. What will we bomb first once we're done with all the Planned Parenthoods?

10. Can countries sue other countries? (Guest question sent in from reader
Greg Abbott)

11. Will Tommy Lee Jones dissolve from existence?

12. Is The Voice going to be subtitled now?

13. Can I drink in church?

14. Will there be legitimate rape?

15. When I retire, how much should I count on getting in Texas Social Security? If not much, can I self-deport to America?

16. Will I die at the Alamo? What if I don't want to die at the Alamo? Can I self-deport to America?

17. Will state troopers wear coonskin caps? Can I self-deport to America?

18. If Texas is its own country, will I have to learn their language?

19. Can I shoot my kids?

20. Will the Texas Bill of Rights have Viagra?

21. Will there be chicken-fried pasta?

22. I'll still get Showtime, right? If not, can this wait until Homeland is over?

23. Will I have to purchase my own transvaginal probe wand, or will one be provided for me?

24. Is Chuck Norris the VP or the Secretary of Defense? If so, does he need interns?

25. Can we force the IRS to give Willie Nelson his money back?

26. Which denomination will be the official national religion, Southern Baptist or Cowboy Church?

27. As women, I obviously don't understand any of this. Will my husband explain it to me? Can he also re-explain my vagina to me?

28. Will the only TV shows be Walker, Texas Ranger played on a loop in back-to-back episodes with Touched By An Angel and Dr Quinn, Medicine Woman?

29. We might as well have excessive banjos in the national anthem, right?

30. If I Duck tape a truck bed to the back, can I keep my Prius?

31. Oh! Oh! Can I have one of the windmills when you take them all down? I promise it's not for energy. It's for art.

32. No art? Really? Huh.

33. Will we still have to pick up our dogs' shits or can we just shoot the dog shits now?

34. Can we bring back mail guys on horseback? That was cool.

35. We can still drink Coors Light though, right?

36. When I have my period, that's the American terrorists winning, right? When I don't have my period, that's also the American terrorists winning, correct?

37. What about rap?

----------end snip.

I would credit the writer, but he never leaves a byline.
And if you dont understand how fucking funny that is, you don't deserve to.
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PostWed Nov 14, 2012 12:11 pm » by Cambay411


objectivist51 wrote:What is wrong with the people of the United States? Have you all lost your minds? Secession is a civil war in the making. You all do remember the Civil War? This is truly Armageddon, the end of the US, the end of freedom, the end of everything this country has stood for since it's inception. You want to defiantly turn the US into a third world country. Thinks about it. 12 states are in bankruptcy, several more are on the verge and you want to sucede? They can't govern themselves now, how in the hell will they create revenue? Oh of course, borrow it from the Fed. So instead of one country having a problem, we will will have 33. Obviously this is Republican motivation behind this, they lost and are pissed. Well next time bring a real candidate to the party. Hey I'm Independent and didn't vote for either one. Both have an incomplete resume to run a country. So the new political agenda is revealed. The political parties of this country is the exact reason we are in trouble. The system is BROKE. Start your bull shit petitions to change that.




It wouldnt be a civil war because the seperated states wouldnt be apart of the country. It would be more of an invasion of a 3rd world nation (Arkansas, etc) and then full blown military state for said states. I get what your sayin tho objectivist. Your exactly right.

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PostWed Nov 14, 2012 12:15 pm » by Cambay411


99socks wrote:
objectivist51 wrote:What is wrong with the people of the United States? Have you all lost your minds? Secession is a civil war in the making. You all do remember the Civil War? This is truly Armageddon, the end of the US, the end of freedom, the end of everything this country has stood for since it's inception. You want to defiantly turn the US into a third world country. Thinks about it. 12 states are in bankruptcy, several more are on the verge and you want to sucede? They can't govern themselves now, how in the hell will they create revenue? Oh of course, borrow it from the Fed. So instead of one country having a problem, we will will have 33. Obviously this is Republican motivation behind this, they lost and are pissed. Well next time bring a real candidate to the party. Hey I'm Independent and didn't vote for either one. Both have an incomplete resume to run a country. So the new political agenda is revealed. The political parties of this country is the exact reason we are in trouble. The system is BROKE. Start your bull shit petitions to change that.



Um, yeah... we know.

No one is actually seceding. We're just trying to make a point.





But someone or some people sure as hell are trying to secede. They may know they severe consequences of a secession and they may not. If they dont they need to realize wtf they are talking about. If they do then we have really bad issues ahead of us.

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PostWed Nov 14, 2012 12:24 pm » by Cambay411


This is gonna be a stupid example but here it goes. Lets say there is someone behind the scenes that wants to conquer the US. Lets say these people come up with a nice little trick to get 25000 people to sign a petition to secede there states from the US. These people who sign the petition think nothing will come of it and are only trying to make a point. Ok now that the petitions have enough signatures the people behind the scenes jump on it and disband these states from the US. Next thing you know all these states are invaded and turned into full blown military states. Next thing you know there is no more US and there is just the Militarized States of America.


Im not saying this will happen. Im saying our country is great enough to not even play around with something as serious as secession. We shouldnt kick our ancestors and families in the ball with such stupidity.

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PostWed Nov 14, 2012 4:57 pm » by 99socks


Cambay411 wrote:This is gonna be a stupid example but here it goes. Lets say there is someone behind the scenes that wants to conquer the US. Lets say these people come up with a nice little trick to get 25000 people to sign a petition to secede there states from the US. These people who sign the petition think nothing will come of it and are only trying to make a point. Ok now that the petitions have enough signatures the people behind the scenes jump on it and disband these states from the US. Next thing you know all these states are invaded and turned into full blown military states. Next thing you know there is no more US and there is just the Militarized States of America.


Im not saying this will happen. Im saying our country is great enough to not even play around with something as serious as secession. We shouldnt kick our ancestors and families in the ball with such stupidity.



Point is, it isn't up to the people, it's up to the States. The peoples' petition to the Feds won't do anything. And if the State's legislature and court isn't interested in seceding or doesn't have the backing of the governor, then nothing is going to happen. The ironic thing is that if the State doesn't want to secede, then it will be the (Federal) National Guard that will protect THE STATE from its own citizens. :lol:

And another thing: individual States seceding would be suicide for each State. However, if all 50 States (and I guess maybe Puerto Rico) seceded TOGETHER at the same time and created a new federal system, then we would have accomplished an abolishment of our own federal government while still remaining the same country, all within the boundaries of what is outlined within the Constitution.
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/obamas-doj-silent-as-new-black-panthers-leader-incites-violence-in-ferguson_082014








I can't speak about how much of the Constitution is in effect anymore... But thank God we still somewhat resemble a Republic and not a democracy!


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PostWed Nov 14, 2012 5:19 pm » by The57ironman


The57ironman wrote:.


........i heard it was being sponsored by Obama...best way to get a list of seditionists...... :mrcool:




.
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.....you can educate the ignorant...but there's no fk'n helping the stupid.

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PostWed Nov 14, 2012 7:20 pm » by Cambay411


99socks wrote:
Cambay411 wrote:This is gonna be a stupid example but here it goes. Lets say there is someone behind the scenes that wants to conquer the US. Lets say these people come up with a nice little trick to get 25000 people to sign a petition to secede there states from the US. These people who sign the petition think nothing will come of it and are only trying to make a point. Ok now that the petitions have enough signatures the people behind the scenes jump on it and disband these states from the US. Next thing you know all these states are invaded and turned into full blown military states. Next thing you know there is no more US and there is just the Militarized States of America.


Im not saying this will happen. Im saying our country is great enough to not even play around with something as serious as secession. We shouldnt kick our ancestors and families in the ball with such stupidity.



Point is, it isn't up to the people, it's up to the States. The peoples' petition to the Feds won't do anything. And if the State's legislature and court isn't interested in seceding or doesn't have the backing of the governor, then nothing is going to happen. The ironic thing is that if the State doesn't want to secede, then it will be the (Federal) National Guard that will protect THE STATE from its own citizens. :lol:

And another thing: individual States seceding would be suicide for each State. However, if all 50 States (and I guess maybe Puerto Rico) seceded TOGETHER at the same time and created a new federal system, then we would have accomplished an abolishment of our own federal government while still remaining the same country, all within the boundaries of what is outlined within the Constitution.




You make good points 99, but the Military coming in to protect a state from its own citizens (who want secession) is all the more reason a subject like this shouldnt be played around with.

In your second paragraph when you talk about all 50 states suceding together in abolishment of our govt, thats more along the lines of my thinking because if all 50 states stay together then we are still the US. And this is the way I would like the individuals who want to seperate thier states to start thinking. It seems to me the creators of these petitions put on a front to make it seem like this is the way they think, but their actions speak louder than thier words. After all they made petitions to break up the US, not a single petition for the 50 states of the US to secede from its govt.

I like the way you think 99socks.

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PostWed Nov 14, 2012 7:33 pm » by Cornbread714


How Texas Could Mess With Us

Lone Star secessionists could (theoretically) get their wish.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ingle.html

By Jeff Turrentine|Posted Wednesday, Nov. 14, 2012, at 10:26 AM ET

By last Friday, three days after the re-election of President Obama but before the final tally of electoral votes had been confirmed, a curious phenomenon was already taking place on the "We the People" website, which the Obama White House set up in 2011 as an easy way for Americans to petition the executive branch for the redress of grievances. Disgruntled individuals in various states—generously taking it upon themselves to speak for the rest of their states' populations—were announcing their desire to secede from the union and formally requesting permission from the federal government to do so.
As of Tuesday afternoon, petitioners in more than 30 states had expressed their keen interest in severing ties. According to "We the People," any petitions that earn 25,000 signatures within 30 days of their original posting will automatically receive an official response from the White House—which, if and when it comes, is almost certain to resemble the kind of "official response" routinely dispensed by immensely powerful corporations who feel compelled to acknowledge customer dissatisfaction, but who can afford not to offer any form of actual recompense. ("Thank you for your interest in seceding from the United States of America. We appreciate and share your concern about the fragile state of our union. Unfortunately, at this time ...")
It's unclear just how many of the state petitioners will be able to meet the signature threshold. But even if every one of them finds 24,999 like-minded souls to sign their names, one state will enjoy an advantage over the others. It will probably come as no surprise that the state in question is Texas, which has always prided itself on doing things its own way.

My home state is an odds-on favorite to stick it to the federal man in a secession battle in part because it’s been spoiling for such a fight since Reconstruction. But it’s not just the state’s vaunted independent streak that gives it a leg up: Thanks to a strange quirk of its original annexation agreement, Texas may actually be in a slightly better position than any of the other 49 states to back up its tough-guy talk.
Just four days after a Texan known only as “Micah H” petitioned the U.S. government to allow his home state to secede peacefully, his petition had received more than three times the number of signatures necessary to merit an official reply from the White House. (Sympathetic signatories were jumping onto his bandwagon at the rate of about 2,000 per hour on Monday and Tuesday.) This remarkable outpouring of support—no other state has even come close to matching Texas' number of signatures—coupled with a statement made late last week by one Texas GOP official who likened Obama voters to "maggots" and called for an "amicable divorce" between Texas and the United States, prompted Texas Gov. Rick Perry to weigh in. In an e-mail to a Dallas Morning News reporter on Monday afternoon, the governor's press secretary affirmed for anyone who might be wondering that her boss "believes in the greatness of our Union and [that] nothing should be done to change it."
Those soothing words are a far cry from the ones Gov. Perry uttered back in 2009, at a Tea Party rally in Austin. Though he hadn't yet announced his candidacy for the GOP presidential nomination, Perry was already trafficking in the kind of bellicosely anti-Washington language that would earn him his brief moment as the GOP's front-runner, before he flamed out spectacularly during the primaries. At that rally, Perry answered a reporter's question about the notion of state sovereignty with all the menacing subtlety of a Lone Star loan shark. "We've got a great union," he said. "There's absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that?"
Nice country you got there. Be a real shame if something happened to it. Right before he made that comment, Perry had told the same reporter that "when [Texas] came in the union in 1845, one of the issues was that we would be able to leave, if we decided to do that." To the extent that Texas' future right to secede from the United States may have been discussed, argued, and/or wished for upon the state's annexation, the governor was technically correct in saying that it was an "issue." But Perry's wording suggested that a right to secede was built, as some sort of term or condition, into the original joint resolution of Congress that brought the Republic of Texas into the union.
That simply isn't true. Texas' so-called "right" to secede is no more than a politically emboldening myth, the boastful residue of the decade it spent as a sovereign nation before joining America. There's simply nothing in the state's official annexation papers, or in any other contemporaneous documents for that matter, to suggest otherwise. Nevertheless, over the last century and half this myth has proven harder to kill than a mound of East Texas fire ants. As recently as 2009, the pollster Rasmussen Reports noted that nearly one-third of Texans believed their state could unilaterally split off from the U.S. if it chose to do so. In the state's 2008 Republican Senate primary, Larry Kilgore, a secessionist who openly had proclaimed his hatred for the federal government, received more than 18 percent of the vote—representing almost 250,000 ballots cast—in his race against the incumbent, John Cornyn.
But while it may not enjoy any such right, Texas can legitimately claim to be holding an unusual ace up its sleeve, which—should it ever be played—could end up altering the face of the U.S. map even more significantly than secession would. And were it to be played deftly, that ace could even set the stage for the very secession scenario that Micah H. and his separatist compatriots so passionately envision.
A few years ago, while conducting research for a novel I was writing about Lone Star politics, I discovered a short clause in the state's 1845 annexation agreement that's well known to any serious state historian, though far less well known to the average Texan. Buried beneath some highly boring details about how the republic's resources were to be transferred to the federal government in Washington is language stipulating that "[n]ew States, of convenient size, not exceeding four in number, in addition to said State of Texas, and having sufficient population, may hereafter, by the consent of said State, be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission under the provisions of the federal constitution."
Put plainly, Texas agreed to join the union in 1845 on the condition that it be allowed to split itself into as many as five separate states whenever it wanted to, and contingent only on the approval of its own state legislature. For more than 150 years, this right to divide—unilaterally, which is to say without the approval of the U.S. Congress—has been packed away in the state's legislative attic, like a forgotten family heirloom that only gets dusted off every now and then by some politician who has mistaken it for a beautiful beacon of hope.
In 1930, a few years before he muscled his way into the White House as Franklin Roosevelt's first vice president, House Minority Leader John Nance Garner led a crusade to divide the one state he represented into five, along regional lines. Together with their progenitor, the new states of North Texas, South Texas, East Texas and West Texas would, in Garner's words, "transfer the balance of political power from New England to the South and secure for the Southern States ... prestige and recognition." At a time when Texas was solidly Democratic, the threat of eight new Democratic senators in Washington would also, in his view, have the added benefit of chipping away significantly at the Republican majority's power.
Garner's plan died on the vine, as have all other attempts since then to split the state (including the one in 1969 proposed by state senator and San Antonio gambling kingpin V.E. "Red" Berry, who dreamed of creating within Texas a 51st state that would be a paradise of parimutuel betting). Still, despite these notable failures, the division clause remains on the books. Its legality has been discounted by some and defended by others, but the issue has never been put to rest in any authoritative, legally binding way. (Snopes.com is uncharacteristically wishy-washy on the matter; newly minted liberal demi-god Nate Silver, hardly the gullible sort, seems far more credulous.) Until that day comes, dreamers and dissidents will continue to view it as a sneaky way to ensure Texas' political supremacy in this era of the closely divided Senate and the opportunistically wielded filibuster.
Could the current crop of Texas secessionists use the division clause in pursuit of their separatist goals? It would certainly be worth a shot. Naturally, it took the Machiavellian political mind of Texan Tom DeLay—the former House majority leader, currently out on bail while appealing a 2011 money-laundering conviction—to put the pieces of a tenable scheme together. The day after Perry blew his secessionist dog whistle to that reporter back in 2009, DeLay went on MSNBC's Hardball to cheerfully defend his governor's remarks. When host Chris Matthews insisted (correctly) that unilateral secession was illegal and couldn't take place, DeLay stopped his maniacal grinning for a moment and cited the division clause.
In a sign of just how much the two political parties' fortunes have shifted in Texas since the days when John Nance Garner represented the state in Congress, DeLay intimated that the threat of sending eight newly minted, and almost certainly Republican, senators to Washington might be the key to getting this whole secession ball rolling. Referring directly to the language of the joint resolution, he said, "If we invoke it, the United States Senate would kick us out ... because they're not going to allow 10 (sic) new Texas senators into the Senate. That's how you secede."
Is it a nutty idea? Sure. An un-American idea? Definitely. But for yesterday's flag-waving patriots, a sizable number of whom have suddenly found themselves transformed into America-bashing cynics, it must seem like an idea whose time has finally, if sadly, come.
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