The Christ paradigm of so called KENOSIS

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PostSun Sep 25, 2011 4:13 am » by Tertiusgaudens


Kenosis is a greek term for emptying or making nothing. The reference is in Phil 2:7:

7 rather, he (Jesus) made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[a] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.


The kenosis paradigm is introduced by Paul in order to describe the meaning of God being in Christ: absolute being small, little and nothing of glory, but wholy human, fragile, and with limits.

By telling so the allmighty and onipotent God concept has faded away - being in Christ means God as being in human conditions and human being.

This concept is amazingly new. What it means is this.

There is no divine power and extrahuman force. There is no extrahuman wonders and mighty epiphanies. There is no fighting against demons like Schwarzenegger with an Uzi gun.

There is no big hero. There is no triumphant salvator. There is no magic. There is no wiping away of problems. There is no heavenly wish uncle. There is no protection from difficult situations by a heavenly problem solver.

Instead: there is the wonder of solidarity with humans, there is the wonder of small humans dealing with big problems, there is the wonder of weeping humans against crying and yelling demons, there is the wonder of humans going through love, pain, life, death, mountains and valleys of existence. There is the wonder of healing by touching hands and words and kisses, there is the wonder of shit being at least a good fertilizer. There is the wonder of weakness. There is the wonder of the low path of life and love and hope and almost nothing. There is the wonder of God being in and with simple, little and fragile people.

In this Paul saw the coming of God to his sanctuary - humans, simply humans. In this Paul saw the meaning of Christ in the gospel.

This is the backround of the kenosis project.
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PostSun Sep 25, 2011 4:27 am » by Tertiusgaudens


Under such circumstances the view of Christ in certain holy scriptures is totally changing all expectations a believer of a holy-and-triumphant-God-concept must have. The change is this:

Exery Christ related prophet must follow the kenosis mind - no triumphant power, no superhuman, no heavenly magic, no easygoing and superhuman word artist and problem solver, no demanding and superholy jack-of-all-trades.

Now think, what that means...

If our belief will make us not lovers of being and acting human, we are not more than ugly, fucking morons
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PostSun Sep 25, 2011 4:35 am » by Lowsix


tertiusgaudens wrote:Now think, what that means...



Personal responsibility?

OMFG BLASPHEMER!!!! (joke)

So no return of the Christ to punish evil and reward good?

No heaven, hell...just here and now and then poof?

No return to the arms of a loving and forgiving god?

No justice for the wicked if they are not punished in this life?

Curious on your thoughts.
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warløckmitbladderinfection wrote:blasphemous new gehenna inhabitant makes god sad...

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PostSun Sep 25, 2011 4:46 am » by Tertiusgaudens


No return to Mohammed the prophet.

All you said is beyond our perception and imagination and in God`s care.

Nobody will ever get lost, nobody.

All being is an emanation of God.
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PostSun Sep 25, 2011 4:47 am » by Lowsix


you are my favorite forum poster of all time.

I love you.
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warløckmitbladderinfection wrote:blasphemous new gehenna inhabitant makes god sad...

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PostSun Sep 25, 2011 4:51 am » by Tertiusgaudens


Low, I love and respect you too.
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PostSun Sep 25, 2011 5:46 am » by Edgarrothstein


lowsix wrote:you are my favorite forum poster of all time.

I love you.



tertiusgaudens wrote:Low, I love and respect you too.



Now that's pretty gay.

BTW, i love you both...
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PostSun Sep 25, 2011 6:24 am » by Zer0


edgarrothstein wrote:
lowsix wrote:you are my favorite forum poster of all time.

I love you.



tertiusgaudens wrote:Low, I love and respect you too.



Now that's pretty gay.

BTW, i love you both...


*walks into room with no pants*

So.. is this the room for the gay orgy?
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PostSun Sep 25, 2011 9:56 am » by Truthdefender


Tertius, while I more than respect your intellect, this sounds like humanism BS to me. So besides the Greek play on words here in this verse, why did God waste His time with all those other verses and 800,000 or so words? To get us to act totally opposite of what this one true verse says? Why is it so hard for the humanity of this current generation to take God at His Word? It makes life so much simpler! The Bible is a book full of promises; made to an unworthy mankind, from a not so easily recognized God. Faith is the key, faith is what shall be rewarded.
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PostSun Sep 25, 2011 10:28 am » by Lowsix


truthdefender wrote:Tertius, while I more than respect your intellect, this sounds like humanism BS to me. So besides the Greek play on words here in this verse, why did God waste His time with all those other verses and 800,000 or so words? To get us to act totally opposite of what this one true verse says? Why is it so hard for the humanity of this current generation to take God at His Word? It makes life so much simpler! The Bible is a book full of promises; made to an unworthy mankind, from a not so easily recognized God. Faith is the key, faith is what shall be rewarded.


To the contrary.

What this articulation does, is help people connect themselves to Jesus,
while addressing the psychological interface of the human mind and the cosmos
as he faces down the unknown, and ineffable..and unknowable.

It also provides a diagram that is useful to make sense of the Christ message of his own humanity,
when 99.9999% of those who speak only Biblese fail to do so for the rest of us.

And youd be hard pressed to show me how the above asks us to act opposite
to whatever your one "true" verse states..

Again, to the contrary, it places responsibility on the individual,
to make himself small, in service..as Christ did, and be simply Human.

And all even remotely accurate readings of the bible message bears out
that the main point is that to show his love...GOD BECAME HUMAN.

To refute the OP, you would have to refute the value in that statement.

Following Job for what it says about God in the OT is critical here.
God did not become 'globally Just' until after his encounter with Job.
Prior to this, he was merely an angry, unconscious omnipotence,
who discovered the lack of value in crushing human worms like Job.

he could not empathize with the human condition,
until he became human.

Most traditionalists, and literalists cringe at that, even though they basically state the same thing (god becomes man), and even though they teach Job, they teach it for the wrong reason (submission)...When in fact, Job is not about mankind. Its about GOD.

There WAS no fault in Jobs faith (by every standard ever stated by the church), therefore no 'morally just reason' to persecute him.

He punished Job at the pricking of The One That Causes doubt.
he caused god to doubt Jobs faith, and to test it beyond the limits
of human endurance. This endows Job with the morally superior position.
The one that causes doubt can only exist in those who are not conscious.
The tempter caused God to be Unjust toward Job and his perfect faith.

Then, Compassion, Wisdom and Mercy (Sophia) whispered in his ear.
And the cognitive dissonance forced him to become human.

Psychological processes are the only way through which man can contemplate god, therefore it is not illogical to examine the psychological interface over time.

The difference of the god of the old testament and the new is perfect evidence of this.

The wholesale changes in gods personality are due to the wholesale changes in human psychology. Which by extension, called forth Jesus from the Ether, as it always does. The ether is the womb of the virgin.

Which makes Jesus not only a man, but more than a man.

A man that exists throughout all time.
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warløckmitbladderinfection wrote:blasphemous new gehenna inhabitant makes god sad...


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