The Life After Death thread...

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PostWed Oct 31, 2012 7:16 am » by Iwanci


If there is life after death then essentially there can be no death.... just a transition to another state, or, no transition just progression to another quantum.

I believe life is too complex for it to fit nicely into a box.

Life as a computer simulation? An interesting proposition, however, if all we are is a simulation, then there can be no death and no life thereafter.

If we think computer logic through and we attribut human charachteristics to the computer, which is not unfeasable since we created the computers we use to suit us, then it is viable that for us to be a computer simulation we would be a computer simulation on another species computer that we cannot truly understand (if we understood it we would not be discussing it).

One could also argue that our brains are computers and hence any thought we process through the brain then becomed a part of the simulation. It is no surprise (to me anyway) that many people are starting to see similarities between computer logic and human thought since the computer logic was constructed using human thought in a manner that human thought could process, that is, we deliberately and logically constructed computers to behave in a manner that we could understand and perform complex tasks and calculations that we could understand. In many ways computers are limited in design and functionality by the ability of the programmer (man), in essence computers only tell us what we know we want to see/hear. Computers are not organic in their progress... unless we are talking about HAL in A Space Odessy.
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PostWed Oct 31, 2012 7:34 am » by Canubis


with what ground braking research and wisdom i have come to understand life after death as a cycle, working with the whole universe down to a planet and within that planet holds the seeds to new life and light in the cosmos..

sounds simple enough?

well its vastly deeply complex..
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PostWed Oct 31, 2012 9:59 am » by Spock


Emeraldtruth wrote:Enjoy Spock


Upload to Disclose.tv




I'm looking very forward to seeing this.

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PostWed Oct 31, 2012 10:10 am » by Spock


Kinninigan wrote:
In the book of genesis god says he created "heaven" in the firmament between the waters.
How come christians never discuss this?



Actually, it is discussed. There are different heavens. The verse actually says...

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth


"Heavens" being plural.

Then there is this scripture...

2 Corinthians 12:2 wrote:[I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.


It was common in those days to talk about 3 levels of heaven, them being the sky, outer space and the spiritual Heaven or terrestrial, telestial, and celestial heavens.

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PostWed Oct 31, 2012 10:22 am » by Spock


Iwanci wrote:If there is life after death then essentially there can be no death.... just a transition to another state, or, no transition just progression to another quantum.


Life as a computer simulation? An interesting proposition, however, if all we are is a simulation, then there can be no death and no life thereafter.



Right Iwanci, I like the scripture where Jesus corrects one of the Sadducees who was attempting to slip him up and He said...

Jesus wrote:Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’d? 27He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!



As far as the computer simulation, I do not subscribe to that belief either. Personally, I consider the universe more of a working "idea" or "thought".

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PostWed Oct 31, 2012 10:23 am » by Spock


Canubis wrote:with what ground braking research and wisdom i have come to understand life after death as a cycle, working with the whole universe down to a planet and within that planet holds the seeds to new life and light in the cosmos..

sounds simple enough? well its vastly deeply complex..



Please elaborate.

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PostWed Oct 31, 2012 11:35 am » by Jetski


Good thread. :flop:

Someone asked why is it that some people see heaven in their NDE, and some see hell? Has anyone here read Destiny of Souls by Michael Newton? Although it wasn't a NDE the subject had been regressed by Michael Newton and claimed to "be in hell". Quite interesting. Note too, in all his years of research and as a spiritual regressionist, Michael Newton had never had a subject claim they were in hell until this one person. Here's case 18 (there's 67 cases throughout the book).

DESTINY OF SOULS
by
Michael Duff Newton

Case 18 concerns the death experience of an evangelical preacher of the 1920s. This man had spent a lifetime seeing the devil in every nook and cranny of his town in the deep South. During my review of this life with the client who carried these memories, I was told, "My parishioners were shaken to their bones with my fiery sermons of the hell awaiting all sinful transgressors." I will begin this case with a scene as it unfolded right after my subject reaches the gateway.

Case 18

Dr. N: You say that although things are not too clear, you are floating in bright light and someone is coming toward you?

S: Yes, I am kind of disoriented. I haven't gotten used to things around here yet.

Dr. N: That's fine, just take your time and let the figure float toward
you as you float toward it.

S: (long pause, and then with a loud horrified exclamation) OH,
GOD. NO!

Dr. N: (startled by this outcry) What's going on?

S: (subject's body begins to shake uncontrollably) OH ... OH ...LORD ALMIGHTY! IT'S THE DEVIL. I KNEW IT. I'VE GONE TO HELL!

Dr. N: (grasping subject by the shoulders) Now, take a deep breath and try to relax as we go through this together, (then, softly) You are not in hell...

S: (cuts in with a shrill tone of voice) OH, YEAH—THEN WHY DO I SEE THE DEVIL RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME?

Dr. N: (my subject's face is now covered in sweat and I use a tissue to wipe some of it away while continuing to reassure) Try to calm yourself, there is some misinterpretation here and we will find it
soon.

S: (paying no attention to me, the subject now begins to moan while rocking back and forth) Ohooo ... it's over for me ... I'm in hell...

Dr. N: (I break in now more forcefully) Tell me exactly what you see.

S: (whispering at first and then loudly) A ... being... demonic ... reddishgreen face ... horns ... wild-eyed ... fangs... the facial skin is like charred wood ... O SWEET JESUS, WHY ME OF ALL PEOPLE,
WHO SPOKE SO MUCH IN YOUR NAME?

Dr. N: What else do you see?

S: (with loathing) WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO SEE? CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND? I'M IN FRONT OF THE DEVIL!

Dr. N: (quickly) I meant the rest of the body. Look below the head and tell me what you see.

S: (with a violent shudder) Nothing ... just a wispy ghost like body.

Dr. N: Stay with me. Doesn't this seem unusual to you—that the devil would appear with no body? Move forward in time rapidly now and tell me what this figure does.

S: (my subject's body jerks up violently and then with a great sigh of relief he sags back into the chair) Oh ... that bastard ... I might have known ... it's SCANLON. He is taking his mask off and smiling
wickedly at me ...

Dr. N: (now I can relax) Who is Scanlon?

S: My guide. This is his crude idea of a joke.

Dr. N: What does Scanlon really look like now?

S: Tall, aquiline features, gray hair ... full of mischief-making, as usual, (laughs with bravado, but still not fully recovered) I should have known. He caught me unawares this time.

Dr. N: Does Scanlon make a habit of this sort of thing? Why frighten you just as you were coming into the spirit world a little disoriented?

S: (defensively) Listen, he is a great teacher. That's his way. He has got our whole group using masks but he knows I don't like them much.

Dr. N: Tell me why Scanlon used a devil's mask to scare you right after this life? Talk to him now.
Note: I am quiet for a few moments while my subject mentally connects with Scanlon.

S: (after a period of silence) I had it coming. Oh, I know it! I spent a lifetime preaching about the devil, scaring good people ... telling them they were going to hell if they didn't pay attention to me.
Scanlon gave me a dose of my own medicine.

Dr. N: And how do you feel now about his methods?

S: (chagrined) He made his point.

Dr. N: I want to ask you a blunt question. Did you really believe what you told your parishioners about seeing demonic forces everywhere, or were you motivated by something else?

S: (intensely) No, no—I believed what I was saying about evil being everywhere in every person. I was not a hypocrite.

Dr. N: Are you sure it wasn't false piety? You did not pretend to feel and be what you were not?

S: No! I believed it. My undoing was my method of preaching and the love of the power over others that this ability gave me. Yes, I admit that failing... I made life miserable for some of my flock... not seeing the essential goodness in people. I was always suspicious because of my obsession with evil and this corrupted me.

Dr. N: Do you feel part of what you became was the result of the body you chose in this life?

S: (in a flat voice) Yes, I lacked restraint. I chose a body with a feisty mind and allowed myself to be swept away. I was too confrontational as a preacher.

Dr. N: And do you know why your soul mind chose to enter into this partnership in the body of a preacher who constantly intimidated people?

S: Oh, I... shit... I let it happen because it felt good to be in control ... I was afraid of... not being taken seriously enough.

Dr. N: You were worried about the loss of control?

S: (long pause) Yes, that... I would be ... inadequate.

Dr. N: By his use of a devil's mask, do you think Scanlon demeans what you stood for in the church?

S: No, that's my teacher's way. I chose the body of a minister and he helped me with all this. I took a wrong turn—it was not the wrong path. My faith was not a bad thing but I became misguided and I misguided others. Scanlon wants me to see what it feels like to scare people rather than reason with them. He wanted me to feel the same fear that I gave to others.
Note: I now move my subject into a group setting to learn more about how Scanlon teaches his students through the use of masks.

Dr. N: Who is the first person who comes to you?

S: (hesitates and is wary) It's ... an angel... soft glowing white ... wings ... (then, with recognition) OKAY, I'M ON TO ALL OF YOU. ENOUGH!

Dr. N: Who is this angel?

S: My dear friend, Diane. She has removed her angel's mask and is laughing and hugging me.

Dr. N: I'm a little confused. Souls can assume any shape or create any features they want. Why bother with masks?

S: The mask is similar to a figure of speech, a symbol one can hold in the hand to put on and pull off for effect. Diane is offsetting Scanlon's huge joke by being a loving angel for me while the others are laughing at what happened to me.

Dr. N: What kind of individual is Diane?

S: Very loving and full of humor. She likes practical jokes, as does most of my group. They all know I take things too seriously. I don't like the masks very much so they tease me.

Dr. N: During your lessons, are masks used as a means of teaching about right and wrong behavior?

S: Yes, they are a means of acknowledgment of good or poor thinking, misconceptions ... they identify aspects of our character which are positive and those which are undesirable and we can role play with each other.

Dr. N: Did Scanlon originate the use of this sort of prop for your group lessons?

S: (laughs) Yes, and what he does makes an impression.

This was a strange case and I’ll admit Scanlon had me going for a few minutes when I thought this client was taking me to a place no other had before. The treatment this subject received at the gateway by the use of a devil mask is an anomaly. Moreover, I have never encountered a guide whose behavior had such extravagance and provocation. In the chapters ahead we will see how drama plays an important part in soul group activity. The use of masks by Scanlon's group as a symbolic gesture to embody a belief system is rather unique in my experience. Masks do have a long tradition in our cultural life, where personification of divine and demonic power has been used to mock spirits which are feared and honor those spirits that are venerated. The devil mask has a history of tribal exorcism toward a harmful spirit. Case 18 is one where mythic spiritual practices were taken from Earth by a soul group director to serve as a wake-up call for his students.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/17906145/1 ... +souls.pdf

I've provided the above link for anyone who's interested in reading Destiny of Souls. I myself, highly recommend it. :flop:

I've also read Astral City....thoroughly enjoyed it too! :flop:

I'm about to start reading another book of Michael Newtons..."Memories of the Afterlife" Live Between Lives.... then after that, Beyond Reincarnation. :flop:

EDIT: Missed part of a question out. :dunno:
Last edited by Jetski on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostWed Oct 31, 2012 11:48 am » by Spock


I'll read your entire post in a bit Jetski, but I wanted to say I read Life Between Lives and it was a great read, it was probably one of the first books I ever read on the subject.

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PostWed Oct 31, 2012 11:57 am » by Jetski


:flop: Spock

Am logging off now so I can get started on the book! :lol:

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PostWed Oct 31, 2012 1:27 pm » by Seriouscitizen


Emeraldtruth wrote:Seriouscitizen wrote/quoted: As we approach the end of life...
a fundamental process starts which releases an 'exotic energy'.

I see a flaw there potentially in that idea. Not being argumentative,
but it seems to suggest that a young child for example who died suddenly,
wouldn't have this "exotic energy" and may suffer perhaps.

Am I rightin my interpretation? That seems fkd up.


Well i think they meant, if we approach the end of our life, in sense in where you approach your dead. Dead doesnt care about your age its just an event. So when you approach your dead, no matter your age, these photons will be formed 'into your light body'. So why wouldnt that be with children aswell? Also it says that with some this lightbody is mere a dot at first. But changes when they go trough the tunnel etc.


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