The proof - Part 1

Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:15 pm » by **Charashc**

I'd love to see your opinions on this one.

The Discovery of the Expanding Universe

Meanwhile, other physicists and mathematicians working on Einstein's theory of gravity discovered the equations had some solutions that described an expanding universe. In these solutions, the light coming from distant objects would be redshifted as it traveled through the expanding universe. The redshift would increase with increasing distance to the object.

In 1929 Edwin Hubble, working at the Carnegie Observatories in Pasadena, California, measured the redshifts of a number of distant galaxies. He also measured their relative distances by measuring the apparent brightness of a class of variable stars called Cepheids in each galaxy. When he plotted redshift against relative distance, he found that the redshift of distant galaxies increased as a linear function of their distance. The only explanation for this observation is that the universe was expanding.

Once scientists understood that the universe was expanding, they immediately realized that it would have been smaller in the past. At some point in the past, the entire universe would have been a single point. This point, later called the big bang, was the beginning of the universe as we understand it today.

The expanding universe is finite in both time and space. The reason that the universe did not collapse, as Newton's and Einstein's equations said it might, is that it had been expanding from the moment of its creation. The universe is in a constant state of change. The expanding universe, a new idea based on modern physics, laid to rest the paradoxes that troubled astronomers from ancient times until the early 20th Century.

http://skyserver.sdss.org/dr1/en/astro/ ... iverse.asp

There are no empirical evidences that universe is expanding, but it's something every living scientist will agree on. It's not possible to aquire empirical evidences about this.

However, since no one on planet until 20th century didn't even have this idea, how come this is written in Qur'an?

Sura 51:47 informs us,"And it is We who have built the universe with (Our creative) power;and,verily,it is We who are steadily expanding it."

Was it really possible for a man who didn't know how to write or read to guess such a modern astrological solution in attempt to "decieve the world" with "his religion"?

I'd love to see some thoughts on this.

Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:15 pm » by **Charashc**

Oh yeah, about this part

At some point in the past, the entire universe would have been a single point. This point, later called the big bang, was the beginning of the universe as we understand it today.

We have answer in same book. A little bit lyrical, but understandable and beutiful if I may add.

Sura 21:30 asks,"Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation),before we clove them asunder?..."

One unit of creation as universe being single point in the beginning and "clove them asunder" part for the big bang.

Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:40 pm » by **Phaeton**

51:56 I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.
Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insailla liyaAAbudooni

51:57 No Sustenance do I require of them, nor do I require that they should feed Me.
Ma oreedu minhum min rizqin wamaoreedu an yutAAimooni

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/051.asp

What do you think charashc; would this mean there are no other biological entities outside this earth? Find that so very hard to believe.. All that space, all those planets.. yet no intelligent life?
Or would it be a copy oif earth with in essence thesame biosphere with some adaptations [micro evo]?

:think:

Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:07 pm » by **Charashc**

phaeton wrote:51:56 I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.
Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insailla liyaAAbudooni

I think this verse is saying that Jinns and men are created with that purpose alone. Not telling us they are only ones that were created.

"And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them: and He has power to gather them together when He wills."(42:29)

This is an interesting verse, it can be understood on several different ways.

As far as I know this word for "heavens" is also used for "sky". It's the same word.

There's another one very interesting verse about "earthlings" exploring the space.

"O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!"(55:33)

"Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a servant.
He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly.
And everyone of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment.
On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will (Allah) Most Gracious bestow love." (19:93-96)

Here we can see some beings not living on earth expiriencing that same Day of Judgment that awaits humans and jinns.

There's no single verse in Noble Qur'an that doesn't present deep wisdom and knowledge. This really is interesting material.

phaeton wrote:What do you think charashc; would this mean there are no other biological entities outside this earth? Find that so very hard to believe.. All that space, all those planets.. yet no intelligent life?
Or would it be a copy oif earth with in essence thesame biosphere with some adaptations [micro evo]?

As far as I understood the Qur'an, Jinns live on this same earth just in other dimension. This dimensional thing ofc is very relative and not understandable so easy without experiencing it. This "life in heavens" might be something else, but then again there are "7 skies", which again can be dimensional thing.
:headscratch:

Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:09 pm » by **Charashc**

charashc wrote:
phaeton wrote:51:56 I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.
Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insailla liyaAAbudooni

I think this verse is saying that Jinns and men are created with that purpose alone. Not telling us they are only ones that were created.

In translation by Mufti Taqi Usmani

"I did not create the Jinns and the human beings except for the purpose that they should worship Me."
http://islam.thetruecall.com/modules.ph ... 1:56&at=-1

Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:33 pm » by **Phaeton**

charashc wrote:
phaeton wrote:51:56 I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.
Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insailla liyaAAbudooni

I think this verse is saying that Jinns and men are created with that purpose alone. Not telling us they are only ones that were created.

"And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them: and He has power to gather them together when He wills."(42:29)

This is an interesting verse, it can be understood on several different ways.

As far as I know this word for "heavens" is also used for "sky". It's the same word.

There's another one very interesting verse about "earthlings" exploring the space.
"O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!"(55:33)

"Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a servant.
He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly.
And everyone of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment.
On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will (Allah) Most Gracious bestow love." (19:93-96)

Here we can see some beings not living on earth expiriencing that same Day of Judgment that awaits humans and jinns.

There's no single verse in Noble Qur'an that doesn't present deep wisdom and knowledge. This really is interesting material.

phaeton wrote:What do you think charashc; would this mean there are no other biological entities outside this earth? Find that so very hard to believe.. All that space, all those planets.. yet no intelligent life?
Or would it be a copy oif earth with in essence thesame biosphere with some adaptations [micro evo]?

As far as I understood the Qur'an, Jinns live on this same earth just in other dimension. This dimensional thing ofc is very relative and not understandable so easy without experiencing it. This "life in heavens" might be something else, but then again there are "7 skies", which again can be dimensional thing.

Interesting.. Still couldnt make a definite conclusion though :think:

Ive heard quite a few muslims declare they indeed think its only us and the 'Jinn'.
Think they base that on the Qur'an / these surahs [especially 51:56 I would think].

Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:54 pm » by **Epicfailure**

charashc wrote:I'd love to see your opinions on this one.

The Discovery of the Expanding Universe

Meanwhile, other physicists and mathematicians working on Einstein's theory of gravity discovered the equations had some solutions that described an expanding universe. In these solutions, the light coming from distant objects would be redshifted as it traveled through the expanding universe. The redshift would increase with increasing distance to the object.

In 1929 Edwin Hubble, working at the Carnegie Observatories in Pasadena, California, measured the redshifts of a number of distant galaxies. He also measured their relative distances by measuring the apparent brightness of a class of variable stars called Cepheids in each galaxy. When he plotted redshift against relative distance, he found that the redshift of distant galaxies increased as a linear function of their distance. The only explanation for this observation is that the universe was expanding.

Once scientists understood that the universe was expanding, they immediately realized that it would have been smaller in the past. At some point in the past, the entire universe would have been a single point. This point, later called the big bang, was the beginning of the universe as we understand it today.

The expanding universe is finite in both time and space. The reason that the universe did not collapse, as Newton's and Einstein's equations said it might, is that it had been expanding from the moment of its creation. The universe is in a constant state of change. The expanding universe, a new idea based on modern physics, laid to rest the paradoxes that troubled astronomers from ancient times until the early 20th Century.

http://skyserver.sdss.org/dr1/en/astro/ ... iverse.asp

There are no empirical evidences that universe is expanding, but it's something every living scientist will agree on. It's not possible to aquire empirical evidences about this.

However, since no one on planet until 20th century didn't even have this idea, how come this is written in Qur'an?

Sura 51:47 informs us,"And it is We who have built the universe with (Our creative) power;and,verily,it is We who are steadily expanding it."

Was it really possible for a man who didn't know how to write or read to guess such a modern astrological solution in attempt to "decieve the world" with "his religion"?

I'd love to see some thoughts on this.

Wrong, look up the Andromeda Galaxy.

it will crash into us do to the "Expanding universe"...

it's inevitable and proven it will crash into us, thus the expanding universe is proven in that aspect.

and I think you are misinterpreting the quote in an astrological sense, when they meant a more mundane and earthly expansion due to population and spreading of belief...

but what do I know right? I am an epicfailure :lol:

Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:56 pm » by **Charashc**

phaeton wrote:Interesting.. Still couldnt make a definite conclusion though
Ive heard quite a few muslims declare they indeed think its only us and the 'Jinn'.
Think they base that on the Qur'an / these surahs [especially 51:56 I would think].

I cannot claim if they are right or wrong. I don't know.
But their evidence most certainly isn't 51:56.

Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:58 pm » by **Charashc**

epicfailure wrote:and I think you are misinterpreting the quote in an astrological sense, when they meant a more mundane and earthly expansion due to population and spreading of belief...

Where do you find ground for such a statement?
It's obvious you are the one misinterpreting the quote.

Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:05 pm » by **99socks**

phaeton wrote:
Interesting.. Still couldnt make a definite conclusion though
Ive heard quite a few muslims declare they indeed think its only us and the 'Jinn'.
Think they base that on the Qur'an / these surahs [especially 51:56 I would think].

Ironically, other Muslims use 1:2 to prove there are aliens. :sunny: