The Scientific Case Against Evolution

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PostFri Oct 05, 2012 7:48 pm » by Daemonfoe


Bandanko wrote:I could bring out about 40 or 50 other case studies where science has proved that animals with the strongest genes (characteristics) breed more and pass these traits onto their descendents.


Exactly. It really baffles me that people can't understand this simple concept. To argue this, one must also argue the fact that selective breeding produces results.
The two choices we have are something starting from nothing, or something existing infinitely. These are both paradoxes. The existence of everything is therefore a paradox. -daemonfoe

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PostFri Oct 05, 2012 7:56 pm » by Bandanko


i still find it hard to believe we all came from bacteria, but nature with all its whiles just needs time and it had 3.5 billion years. look what it produced in that time, all this marvel and wonderment. i hate it when people think that a being (no matter how powerful) could do this. you need chaos, you need diversity you need a challenge. nature overcomes all. look how powerful we think we are here in the UK with all our modern ways of living, 3 inches of snow and the country grinds to a halt

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PostFri Oct 05, 2012 8:25 pm » by Truthdefender


Are they not still moths? Foxes are foxes, platypus' the same. Interesting though that the scientists on the front lines, as quoted by the article, are more willing to admit the lack of evidence, or the lack of observation than those who hold to evolution simply as a preferred worldview vs. special creation and all the baggage it entails.


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PostFri Oct 05, 2012 8:42 pm » by Truthdefender


The “One Over Many” Argument

According to Aristotle, the Platonists had an argument for the existence of Forms that he called the “One Over Many.” Plato himself never used this title, although he sometimes described a Form as being a “one over many.”

The idea behind the One Over Many is probably best exemplified in Plato’s dialogues in the principle enunciated at Rep. 596a:

We customarily hypothesize a single form in connection with each collection of many things to which we apply the same name.

The idea is this:

If there is a set of things all of which have the same “name,” then there is a Form for that set.

By “name” here we should probably understand “general term” or “predicate” (to use the word that Aristotle invented for this kind of “name”) - that is, a term that can be applied in the same way to many different things that all have something in common, a term like ‘bed’ or ‘table’. Cf. the next speech in Rep. 596a-b:

Then let’s now take any of the manys you like. For example, there are many beds and tables ... but there are only two forms of such furniture, one of the bed and one of the table.

What the principle tells us in this case is:

For any set of things to which we apply the term ‘table’, there is a single Form.

This is the Form of Table, or (perhaps) Tablehood, or (as Plato would say) The Table Itself.

Since the things to which we apply the term ‘table’ are obviously tables, we can reformulate this instance of the principle as follows:

For any set of tables, there is a single Form.

faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/1ovrmany.htm

SC, this example is probably a total butchery of what you, or Plato :D meant by "One Over Many," but I felt that this small intro to what you mentioned fits perfectly with how Creation is fashioned. Tables are tables, beds be beds, they do not change form or kind, and none of them turn into chairs or each other. At least not without an intelligence re-fashioning them.

In this world all I see are extremely well adapted living creatures which have no need to become something else to be fit for its environment.


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PostFri Oct 05, 2012 8:47 pm » by Richc


A Virus makes a Human ill.

Human kills the Virus with Antibiotics.

The Virus comes back and makes a Human ill again.

The Human uses the same Antibiotic to kill the Virus...

But wait...

This time the Virus is not killed. It has become amune to the Antibiotic.

It has changed, mutated.

Has it evolved.? Isn't that evolution at the smallest scale.?

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PostFri Oct 05, 2012 8:53 pm » by Truthdefender


Richc wrote:A Virus makes a Human ill.

Human kills the Virus with Antibiotics.

The Virus comes back and makes a Human ill again.

The Human uses the same Antibiotic to kill the Virus...

But wait...

This time the Virus is not killed. It has become amune to the Antibiotic.

It has changed, mutated.

Has it evolved.? Isn't that evolution at the smallest scale.?

RIK


Micro yes, adaptation. But this virus will still be in the same 'family' of viruses from which it originated before building up its own antibodies to to protect it from antibiotics, no?


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PostFri Oct 05, 2012 9:06 pm » by Poooooot


Truthdefender wrote:First of all, the lack of a case for evolution is clear from the fact that no one has ever seen it happen. If it were a real process, evolution should still be occurring, and there should be many transitional forms that we could observe.


Perhaps you should read up on the finches of the Galapagos Islands
http://www.galapagos-islands-tourguide. ... nches.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ution.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/libra ... 16_02.html
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PostFri Oct 05, 2012 9:08 pm » by Richc


Truthdefender wrote:
Richc wrote:A Virus makes a Human ill.

Human kills the Virus with Antibiotics.

The Virus comes back and makes a Human ill again.

The Human uses the same Antibiotic to kill the Virus...

But wait...

This time the Virus is not killed. It has become amune to the Antibiotic.

It has changed, mutated.

Has it evolved.? Isn't that evolution at the smallest scale.?

RIK


Micro yes, adaptation. But this virus will still be in the same 'family' of viruses from which it originated before building up its own antibodies to to protect it from antibiotics, no?


Well yes but lets not lose the meaning of Evolution....

Evolution - noun
1.
any process of formation or growth; development: the evolution of a language; the evolution of the airplane.
2.
a product of such development; something evolved: The exploration of space is the evolution of decades of research.
3.
Biology . change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.

4.
a process of gradual, peaceful, progressive change or development, as in social or economic structure or institutions.

5.
a motion incomplete in itself, but combining with coordinated motions to produce a single action, as in a machine.

Are you saying that to Evolve means to change from one thing to something completely different.?

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PostFri Oct 05, 2012 9:15 pm » by Poooooot


Truthdefender wrote:Are they not still moths? Foxes are foxes, platypus' the same. Interesting though that the scientists on the front lines, as quoted by the article, are more willing to admit the lack of evidence, or the lack of observation than those who hold to evolution simply as a preferred worldview vs. special creation and all the baggage it entails.


So, you're saying, that until an ape gives birth to a human (or a similar situation), that you will refuse to believe in evolution or even natural selection?


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PostFri Oct 05, 2012 9:24 pm » by Poooooot


Even under this very post, in related topics, is a case study:

Abyssdnb wrote:Tibetans live at altitudes of 13,000 feet, breathing air that has 40 percent less oxygen than is available at sea level, yet suffer very little mountain sickness. The reason, according to a team of biologists in China, is human evolution, in what may be the most recent and fastest instance detected so far. Comparing the genomes of Tibetans and Han Chinese, the majority ethnic group in China, the biologists found that at least 30 genes had undergone evolutionary change in the Tibetans as they adapted to life on the high plateau. Tibetans and Han Chinese split apart as recently as 3,000 years ago, say the biologists, a group at the Beijing Genomics Institute led by Xin Yi and Jian Wang. The report appears in Friday’s issue of Science.

If confirmed, this would be the most recent known example of human evolutionary change. Until now, the most recent such change was the spread of lactose tolerance — the ability to digest milk in adulthood — among northern Europeans about 7,500 years ago. But archaeologists say that the Tibetan plateau was inhabited much earlier than 3,000 years ago and that the geneticists’ date is incorrect.

fastest-case-of-evolution-recorded-t25912.html

And I even did you the favor of finding the original source article
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/02/scien ... .html?_r=0
Matthew 7
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.


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