The state of Israel?

Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:31 pm » by **Drextin**

strychnine wrote:Making stupid comments or even the unbelievable comparison between a mother goose rhyme book and the bible are words of an idiot and I believe I have grounds for that. For someone to come right out and say they aren't racist and then a sentence or two later compare mother goose and the bible would in good terms be an idiot. Keep reading mother goose. Maybe you'll actually excel in your intellect.

Why would not believing in the bible make me a racist? That makes absolutely no sense.

You do realize that not everyone is a christian.......right?

Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:47 pm » by **Drextin**

strychnine wrote:There are people and then there are people like drextin. We could possibly rely on some educated remarks in this forum from some people that ARE present here with some significant education. Remarks from that certain individual that seems to entertain himself on believing, sorry, not believing, but certainly wanting others in here to BELIEVE he knows everything about everything. This person could twist anything around to try and make himself look educated when all he does is come across as an idiot. And an idiot is the most pleasant term I would care to post here. If this person is going to make a comment on somethings that could be regarded as racist, comments and some insight that could involve more education than a grade 8 drop out, cause thats exactly what he is. Well I think it goes something like that or something to the sort, or I heard on TV once about this or that and posts his reply on those kind of basis, should shut up and not say anything at all. If you think you are cool by what you post or how you post it and make others look inferior to yourself, think again. Just because you post stupid remarks, doesn't expect others to gratify your ignorance. Many people can see through it. 1 person asked what they thought of the situation but another person couldn't keep his mouth shut. A man and his computer can pretend to be whatever he wants to be but in the utmost presence would be a dismal failure. This guy does a great job pushing people to their limits. He is right about one thing though, all he knows is that it was promised to them in the bible. It should have ended there. But his lip service couldn't end there. I've been looking through this site for a long time and couldn't keep quiet any longer. His ego is utterly amazing. And I would have to say that is the only strong quality about him. As far as mentioning land in Montana? Don't think junior would last a week there.

Actually I dropped out in 9th grade thank you very much. It was right after we learned how to make paragraphs.

Thank you for the junior comment.......I was starting to feel old.

I push people to their limits? I have an opinion as well as others that is what forums are for. I never attack an individual unless attacked first. Too many people mix up me questioning a view as attacking a member. The only people I attack first are those off site and public figures. But I am not going to sit back and take abuse from anyone and if they dish it they should be prepared to take it. I know I am.

Your problem with me is your anger over my views on the bible. That is your right. As it is mine to express my views. You talk as if you want me ignored or banned simply because I don't think like you.

You mistake ego for conviction. I would not go to a christian only site and post my views....that is rude. But in a environment such as this where open minded people discuss, debate and flat out argue....... all views count.

There are videos on this site that express the same views I have do you hunt them down and comment on each one or am I special?

I DO NOT think I know everything! I have no problem with being wrong. I would have more of a problem if I couldn't except being wrong. That doesn't mean that everyone who tells me I'm wrong is right. That once again is conviction.

Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:52 pm » by **Eaganthorn**

ogmios wrote:I would like to ask a question. Does Israel have a right, biblically, to the lands of Palestine? I don't have a bible handy but I'm sure I remember that Israel was once in Egypt. Therefore it is not an actual country, but a genetic line consisting of the descendants of the Jacob's twelve sons.

So what we have is, in effect, a racist state: a political entity consisting of only one race. Almost like what Hitler was trying to turn Europe into.

I'd like to know what others think of this.

There is an expression that best answers your question;
If you can keep it secure, it is yours. If you cannot, it never really belonged to you.
I understand the moral implications of that statement and I am not trying to validate whether it is right or wrong, just that it is a reality.

There are many ways to secure something; force, intimidation, emotionally, religiously, etc.

Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:21 pm » by **Spock**

As far as Israel having a legal hold to the land, yes they do now that they are a nation. The same line of thinking applies to Claws posts with the United States and the indians.

The ideal situation would be for peace and coexistance. There are a few obstacles to that. The major one is the religious claim to Jerusalem, being the Mosque on top of the Temple. If Israel could build their temple directly next to the mosque and use the wailing wall as one of the foundation points, it should legitimate their reconstruction plan.

Two, the Palestinians do not want to live with Jews in their midst. That's why they have been cordoned off. Jerusalem is still free run to all people, but the Palistineans have this militant idea that blowing themselves up and taking out Jews make them go straight to paradise.

Three, Israel being a nation, they want to secure the government as being for the Jews. So it would be impossible for the 2 sides to coexist unless Palistineans realized Israel is a nation run by Jewish factions. I don't have a problem with this because the whole of the middl east is controlled by Islamic factions, and within each of those areas there is a life and death battle (all in the name of Allah) to conquer and rule.

The Jews and Israel would be a nation that could easily coexist with the rest of the civilized world. The Islamic nations will never be able to claim that. It's deep in their ideology, that they must rule the entire world with a strict brand of Islamic law (not laws of individual republic countries - but sharia law).

The difference in the religious zealotry between Jews/Christians and Islam is this. Christians believe God came to earth and died for mankind, God will ultimatley work all things to His will. Jews believe there will come a saviour that will deliver them from oppression from everybody in the world that has always constantly bashed them. Islam declares that you should take up the sword and die for your God. It's the latter ideal that is the scariest.

I'm sure I'll be labeled a racist for this by somebody.

Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:37 pm » by **Drextin**

I've yet to see any real racism on this thread. Only a few seem to think if you do not hold their belief then you are a racist.

There is nothing wrong with taking a side in the matter.

Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:40 pm » by **Ogmios**

To Avimoas.
Firstly, if the Jews/Israelis had a God given right to the land; why were they not on it for the best part of two thousand years. That would be like the Scots going back to Ireland and claiming it. Or the anglo saxon Brits claiming Germany. I am not denying the right of Jews to live in Israel, I am rather asking why the state of Israel does not treat the people who have been on the land for a couple of millenium with dignity, courtesy and respect.

Secondly, I have read the bible despite what you may think. I was just questioning whether that makes it alright to steal land.

Thirdly, you can call me a racist if it makes you feel better. But just remember who is doing the killing. And, furthermore, It strikes me as wrong that anyone should decide how much water anyone else gets. The fact is that the Palestinians should be given the same rights in the place they were born as everyone else. In fact they should have more rights than gun bearing immigrants from America and elsewhere who turn up on mass and live on illegal settlements.

Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:07 pm » by **Spock**

ogmios wrote:Firstly, if the Jews/Israelis had a God given right to the land; why were they not on it for the best part of two thousand years. That would be like the Scots going back to Ireland and claiming it. Or the anglo saxon Brits claiming Germany. I am not denying the right of Jews to live in Israel

Very good point.

ogmios wrote:I am rather asking why the state of Israel does not treat the people who have been on the land for a couple of millenium with dignity, courtesy and respect.

Well, because the Palistineans hate them and want to kill them

ogmios wrote:Secondly, I have read the bible despite what you may think. I was just questioning whether that makes it alright to steal land.

It's never right to steal land

ogmios wrote:Thirdly, you can call me a racist if it makes you feel better.

Like Drex said, I don't think anybody could call you a racist for having an opinion on the matter. But rest assured, some people will want to.

ogmios wrote:But just remember who is doing the killing.

I guarantee that when Palistineans stop the terrorism, Israel will stop the overwhelming force in the region. The Muslims take the war to the streets and kill bus loads of innocents - Israel has a bigger stick and decides to bash the Palistineans so hard they will think twice about doing it again, the Palistineans use this as support for their "glorious" martyrdom.

ogmios wrote:And, furthermore, It strikes me as wrong that anyone should decide how much water anyone else gets. The fact is that the Palestinians should be given the same rights in the place they were born as everyone else. In fact they should have more rights than gun bearing immigrants from America and elsewhere who turn up on mass and live on illegal settlements.

Illegal settlements? Was it illegal when the Muslims took the land from the Christians, who had taken the land from the Turks and (blah, blah, blah - it goes on).

I'll agree that Israel should use government funds to create social programs to help the Palestinians - but it should be Jew and Arab taxes to pay for it. Just like the United States guarantees certain privileges and socialized communities for the American Indians. Now it's not making them rich - being rich is as individual endeavor, but it is giving them security of a home, food, utilities. It's up to each individual to climb above and achieve (the beauty of capitalism!). Hell, I wish I were guaranteed that. What usually happens in those communities though is that the people sit on the governments tax dime, bitch and moan that they are not rich and want to see an insurrection - the insurrection that helps them realize their dreams of being rich - without doing anything differently.

Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:19 pm » by **Ogmios**

Illegal settlements? Was it illegal when the Muslims took the land from the Christians, who had taken the land from the Turks and (blah, blah, blah - it goes on).

Well Spock, the thing is, the United Nations was created so that individual nations or minority alliances could not threaten the peace and stability of the world. That is why we have international law. If the UN says the settlements are illegal, then they are illegal.

It seems to me that the only countries which brazenly break international law are Israel and the unholy alliance of America and the UK. Whenever Iran, North Korea or any other "rogue state" upsets the applecart new resolutions are rushed through which, generally, they adhere to. Our involvement in Iraq was a case in point, where we had a vote, lost, and went to war anyway.

Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:23 pm » by **Spock**

The "isms"

Communism:
Mandates each person stays at a "base" life style, all work is done for the good of the motherland.

Socialism:
Creates a base lifestyle and punishes individual acheivement via taxes to insure the base of the whole.

Capitalism:
All people are enabled to have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

"Spockism"
Capitalism with a government with term limits that madates there are no career politicians. That anybody can serve a term in congress and not push an agenda, insuring that rampant capitalism can not be held hostage to business fueled lobbyists. Taxes are used to insure socialist programs that guarantee a "base" for the elderly and underprivileged; infrastructure by hiring legal citizens to do the work.
Taxes - The FairTax doctrine and no income taxes. Sales taxes insures everyobody pays.

I can go on about this - but Spock needs to refresh his drink.

Thank you for reading my diatribe. Maybe I should have said Spockgasm?

Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:29 pm » by **Ogmios**

spock wrote:The "isms"

Communism:
Mandates each person stays at a "base" life style, all work is done for the good of the motherland.

Socialism:
Creates a base lifestyle and punishes individual acheivement via taxes to insure the base of the whole.

Capitalism:
All people are enabled to have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

"Spockism"
Capitalism with a government with term limits that madates there are no career politicians. That anybody can serve a term in congress and not push an agenda, insuring that rampant capitalism can not be held hostage to business fueled lobbyists. Taxes are used to insure socialist programs that guarantee a "base" for the elderly and underprivileged; infrastructure by hiring legal citizens to do the work.
Taxes - The FairTax doctrine and no income taxes. Sales taxes insures everyobody pays.

I can go on about this - but Spock needs to refresh his drink.

Thank you for reading my diatribe.

I think I have to lie down now. My head's bursting.