The Talmud; Sanhedrin

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PostSun Sep 23, 2012 12:46 am » by Phaeton


Ok, so I was trying to disprove all the quotes you see popping up about the Talmud..


Approves of Child Sacrifice to Idols: “He who gives his seed to Molech incurs no punishment” (Sanhedrin 64a)



Cursing Parents Allowed: “ One who curses his parents isn’t punished unless he curses them by Divine Name” Sanhedrin 66a)



Allows enchanting: “ It is permitted to consult by charm the spirits of oil and eggs, and make incantations” (Sanhedrin 101a)



Beastiality Condoned: “Women having intercourse with a beast can marry a priest, the act is but a mere wound” (Yebamoth 59a)



Harlotry Lawful: “A harlot’s hire is permitted, for what the woman has received is legally a gift” (Abodah Zarah 62b-63a)



Blasphemy Allowed: “One can revile the Divine Name if mentally appling it to some other object” (Sanhedrin 65a-b)



Not Required to Keep Vows: One may declare: “Every vow which I may make in the future shall be null” (Nedarim 23a-23b)



Murder Condoned: “If ten men smote a man with ten staves and he died, they are exempt from punishment” (Sanhedrin 78a)

http://www.destructionofamerica.4t.com/custom2.html


I keep having to rebuke all the nonsense Islamophobes continually use against Islam, so I though this was probably the case with the talmud as well. Just plain lies, misquotes, taken out of context etc etc.

So I pulled up a copy and started checking the verses.

Problem is, unless I used faulty copies, I couldnt do anything but confirm the implications.
Id ask anyone to check it themselves, and tell me what they find. And If the links refer to faulty copies, please tell me so and provide the correct version. If there is some context I should be aware of, that for instance would legitimize giving ones seed to Molech is not to be punished, please enlighten me.

Heres the link[s] to the Sanhedrin, part of the Talmud:
http://halakhah.com/pdf/nezikin/Sanhedrin.pdf
http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/
"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music"
"All our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - yet, in contemporary consensus, its the most precious thing we have"


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PostMon Sep 24, 2012 6:50 pm » by Phaeton


BUMP

I know this isnt a popular topic, as it doesnt slander Islam and all that..

But I think its relevant nonetheless. Crazy, I know, but there it is.


Anyone for either side of the fence?
"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music"
"All our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - yet, in contemporary consensus, its the most precious thing we have"


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PostTue Sep 25, 2012 6:21 pm » by Phaeton


Proto, where you at?

Please shine your light..

Im sure you can resolve the at first glance unsound content, with great ease.
"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music"
"All our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - yet, in contemporary consensus, its the most precious thing we have"


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PostTue Sep 25, 2012 6:33 pm » by kennydubbs


A spade is a spade.

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PostTue Sep 25, 2012 7:45 pm » by Middleman


With all due respect, why would you expect any ancient "holy" book to be free of that type of nasty stuff?

The old testament is full of the exact kind of illogical and immoral pronouncements as you describe above, and it is revered by Jews, Christians and Muslims alike.

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PostTue Sep 25, 2012 7:56 pm » by Phaeton


Middleman wrote:With all due respect, why would you expect any ancient "holy" book to be free of that type of nasty stuff?

The old testament is full of the exact kind of illogical and immoral pronouncements as you describe above, and it is revered by Jews, Christians and Muslims alike.


Show me what sort of immoral pronouncements you are referring to specifically.

Please.

If possible, at least containing / consisting of the categories present in the OP - but any will do if you cant find those.
"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music"
"All our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - yet, in contemporary consensus, its the most precious thing we have"


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PostTue Sep 25, 2012 8:50 pm » by Middleman


Here are a dozen or so from the first article I googled, but there are plenty more where that came from. The book of Leviticus in particular has all kinds of stuff about doing violence or executing people for everything from working on the Sabbath to growing 2 different crops together in the same field.

"If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity." Deuteronomy 25:11-13

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)

"Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

"You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:18)

"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)

"When the men would not listen to his host, the husband seized his concubine and thrust her outside to them. They had relations with her and abused her all night until the following dawn, when they let her go. Then at daybreak the woman came and collapsed at the entrance of the house in which her husband was a guest, where she lay until the morning. When her husband rose that day and opened the door of the house to start out again on his journey, there lay the woman, his concubine, at the entrance of the house with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, 'Come, let us go'; but there was no answer. So the man placed her on an ass and started out again for home." (Judges 19:25-28)

"And the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." (Romans 1:27)

"Jephthah made a vow to the Lord. 'If you deliver the Ammonites into my power,' he said, 'whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites shall belong to the Lord. I shall offer him up as a holocaust.' ... When Jephthah returned to his house in Mizpah, it was his daughter who came forth, playing the tambourines and dancing. She was an only child: he had neither son nor daughter besides her. When he saw her, he rent his garments and said, 'Alas, daughter, you have struck me down and brought calamity upon me. For I have made a vow to the Lord and I cannot retract'." (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)

"Then God said: 'Take your son Isaac, your only one, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him up as a holocaust on a height that I will point out to you'."(Genesis 22:2)

"Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

"If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through." (Zechariah 13:3)

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PostTue Sep 25, 2012 9:08 pm » by Phaeton


[processing..]

dont have the time right now, Ill respond asap.
"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music"
"All our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - yet, in contemporary consensus, its the most precious thing we have"


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PostTue Sep 25, 2012 9:39 pm » by Elnorel


Well Islam religion itself is a great one in my opinion.

Its just what people do with it and how they interpret it thats bothering me.


All you have to do is say ANYTHING against Mohamed and "bam", youre either attacked or people are trying to kill you.

What gives? He was a person centuries ago. A man.
So much bloodshed in defense of a man? Its fanaticism.

And what is all the crap about how the women are treated and children?

Koran does not teach violence FFS.
SKEPTIC - One who instinctively or habitually doubts, questions, disagrees with assertions or generally accepted conclusions.
And tries to prove these assertions/claims with scientific facts.

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PostTue Sep 25, 2012 10:14 pm » by The57ironman


.


...i keep tellin' myself to stay out of threads like this... :mrcool:

............they tend to be of the baiting kind........not that this one is... :roll:








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..... If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.......
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