The Trading Mind

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PostMon Dec 26, 2011 1:25 am » by kentrb


in the sea of madness
where your children swim
they call for father
in whos mind they swim
father sat and listened
aware and unaware
to the sea his children swam in
sitting in his chair
with his children daily
though orphans they might seem
they chose to swim in misery
father hugged them in his dreams


i just wrote this for you tertius

i didnt name it.a couple thoughts come to mind
the children in my mind or maybe,in the image of god

hope your still rolling in happy
cheers tertius
peace..kent

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PostMon Dec 26, 2011 1:30 am » by 99socks


That's why taking the chance, to give something with no expectation of any return, is the most powerful spiritual lesson we can learn... And the more precious that thing is that we give, the deeper the lesson, the more we grow, the more pain we feel... and the more satisfaction we receive.

This reminds me of an Islamic song. Maybe that is ironic, here on Christmas. But it is an excellent metaphor, even if the expectation of reward is in the next life and not this one.


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PostMon Dec 26, 2011 1:56 am » by Tuor10


99socks wrote:That's why taking the chance, to give something with no expectation of any return, is the most powerful spiritual lesson we can learn... And the more precious that thing is that we give, the deeper the lesson, the more we grow, the more pain we feel... and the more satisfaction we receive.

This reminds me of an Islamic song. Maybe that is ironic, here on Christmas. But it is an excellent metaphor, even if the expectation of reward is in the next life and not this one.


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The word 'reward' is very big in Islamic lore (as it is in most monotheistic religions). It is the reason behind all their actions. They act the way they do, because they believe they will be rewarded. It really is ironic: act ungodly in order to receive Gods grace.

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PostMon Dec 26, 2011 1:59 am » by Tertiusgaudens


Thank you so much...
Hope is the thing with feathers...
Emily Dickinson

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PostMon Dec 26, 2011 2:07 am » by 99socks


tuor10 wrote:
99socks wrote:That's why taking the chance, to give something with no expectation of any return, is the most powerful spiritual lesson we can learn... And the more precious that thing is that we give, the deeper the lesson, the more we grow, the more pain we feel... and the more satisfaction we receive.

This reminds me of an Islamic song. Maybe that is ironic, here on Christmas. But it is an excellent metaphor, even if the expectation of reward is in the next life and not this one.


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The word 'reward' is very big in Islamic lore (as it is in most monotheistic religions). It is the reason behind all their actions. They act the way they do, because they believe they will be rewarded. It really is ironic: act ungodly in order to receive Gods grace.



I was always bothered by the Islamic law of "intentions"- you'll be rewarded for your intentions. So, if your intention is to feel good because of what you do, then that is ego-building and taking away from the "glory of God" but if you do things with an expectation of receiving a reward in the afterlife, then that is what you will get... The consequence of this, is that many (not all) people become greedy about what they have done and they miss the point- lacking in compassion, never making that human-human connection, and always expecting something in return. There is no education in the process of what it means to Love, or to Give. I think this is a reason that Christianity is so far beyond their comprehension; what do you mean God would give Himself for everyone, even those who haven't "earned" it? The idea is absurd. But this is precisely what makes the Christian story so much different. I do not agree with you that all monotheistic religions teach this "equal exchange," because this "equal exchange" does not exist in the pure understanding of Christianity (though we may agree that very large and influential denominations with respected thinkers have made it so). Even Buddhism, with its ideas of self-annihilation, is self-centered and greedy, and based around DOING in an attempt at BEING something that won't get punished (or even rewarded) in the next reincarnation.

I think this has a lot to do with the abandonment of religion actually and an increase of "spiritual but not religious" people. I think people have learned the superiority of giving, and not expecting in return. That attitude messes up personal relationships, families, politics, business- you name it.

The only "law" there is, is to give wholly, without fear, for free.
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PostMon Dec 26, 2011 2:12 am » by Fatbastard


99 Socks. Haven't you found that other missing sock yet. Happy Boxing Day.
"Senator. I am not now, nor have I ever been, an oil trader, and neither has anyone on my behalf. I have never seen a barrel of oil, owned one, bought one, sold one, and neither has anyone on my behalf."

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PostMon Dec 26, 2011 2:19 am » by Tertiusgaudens


Fritz Oser has also worked in this subject. The latin term"do ut des" means "give in order to receive". Oser is using that term in his stage 2. Read here:

http://www.exploring-spiritual-developm ... ement.html
Hope is the thing with feathers...
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PostMon Dec 26, 2011 2:32 am » by 99socks


So lemme ask...

How do "we" get out of stage 2?
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PostMon Dec 26, 2011 2:39 am » by Tuor10


99socks wrote:
tuor10 wrote:
99socks wrote:That's why taking the chance, to give something with no expectation of any return, is the most powerful spiritual lesson we can learn... And the more precious that thing is that we give, the deeper the lesson, the more we grow, the more pain we feel... and the more satisfaction we receive.

This reminds me of an Islamic song. Maybe that is ironic, here on Christmas. But it is an excellent metaphor, even if the expectation of reward is in the next life and not this one.


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The word 'reward' is very big in Islamic lore (as it is in most monotheistic religions). It is the reason behind all their actions. They act the way they do, because they believe they will be rewarded. It really is ironic: act ungodly in order to receive Gods grace.



I was always bothered by the Islamic law of "intentions"- you'll be rewarded for your intentions. So, if your intention is to feel good because of what you do, then that is ego-building and taking away from the "glory of God" but if you do things with an expectation of receiving a reward in the afterlife, then that is what you will get... The consequence of this, is that many (not all) people become greedy about what they have done and they miss the point- lacking in compassion, never making that human-human connection, and always expecting something in return. There is no education in the process of what it means to Love, or to Give. I think this is a reason that Christianity is so far beyond their comprehension; what do you mean God would give Himself for everyone, even those who haven't "earned" it? The idea is absurd. But this is precisely what makes the Christian story so much different. I do not agree with you that all monotheistic religions teach this "equal exchange," because this "equal exchange" does not exist in the pure understanding of Christianity (though we may agree that very large and influential denominations with respected thinkers have made it so). Even Buddhism, with its ideas of self-annihilation, is self-centered and greedy, and based around DOING in an attempt at BEING something that won't get punished (or even rewarded) in the next reincarnation.

I think this has a lot to do with the abandonment of religion actually and an increase of "spiritual but not religious" people. I think people have learned the superiority of giving, and not expecting in return. That attitude messes up personal relationships, families, politics, business- you name it.

The only "law" there is, is to give wholly, without fear, for free.


I have often pondered the things we speak of; spent many hours wondering what motives a person to destroy themselves and others around them. After much deliberation - and without over complicating the matter - it occurred to me that volition is a double edged sword.

Free will should have a warning: use with care.

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PostMon Dec 26, 2011 2:44 am » by Fatbastard


I have often pondered the things we speak of; spent many hours wondering what motives a person to destroy themselves and others around them. After much deliberation - and without over complicating the matter - it occurred to me that volition is a double edged sword.

Free will should have a warning: use with care.[/quote]
"You do talk shite."
"Senator. I am not now, nor have I ever been, an oil trader, and neither has anyone on my behalf. I have never seen a barrel of oil, owned one, bought one, sold one, and neither has anyone on my behalf."


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