The World Will Change to Islam

Mon May 04, 2009 4:29 am » by **Lowsix**

And dont get me wrong, although i suspect its somewhat late..

But I hold incorrectly practicing Christians to the same fire that I hold Zealot muslims..
Its just that at the moment, we are discussing Islam.

I have dear muslim friends who have patiently allowed me into their lives, and their structures so that if i had an opinion, it was at least informed. We disagree on a great many things, but those can be reduced to dogmatic disagreements..and passed over. They have patiently allowed me to lay out my case, and they credit me with at least being thoughtful, considerate and open to hearing the rebttals... and in many regards, concernng my criticism of the practical applications of their culture..say that i am correct. Their fear, prevents them from speaking out, and using logic and humanitarian reason to appeal to the Ulema for interpretation and application more along the lines of the WORDs inthe Quran, instead of the laws of the Human Ulema being the law of the religion..which is absolutely is.. They are advised not to trust us, just as we, them..( i think we compromised by at least not Fearing each other...yet) Trust? Im not entirely sure. How much sway does their local imam hold over their true heart of beliefs if the shit hit the fan? Not enough for me to gamble my life..and ive admitted as such, for the sake of being hnet ith them..and they say the same..that they worry that id get swept up in a redneck frenzy of muslim torchings.. so we share a laugh...nervous laugh. Followed by what appears to be a sincere hug. Ill take what i can get...and settle for accepting whats missing in both our backgrounds.

Similar to telling a Southern Baptist preacher, that protecting the Jews (based on incorrect assumptions of biblical verse advising us gentiles as such) is almost singlehandedly leading us toward the apolcalypse..you will get 1) blank stares and 2) invited to make an immediate exit.

And to say on an objective basis alone that the faults running through both are similar is seriously comparing apples to oranges. And that is based firmly on the facts on the ground, and not the presumed prejudices in my head.

Same rule of logical fallacy applies to both religions.
The mistaken advocacy of The God of Law, instead of the God of Grace.
The God of Law orders beheadings, and Crusades...
the punishment for both, in the end, i presume, will be vile.

We are under grace, and not under the law.
complicated but VERY relevant distinction...

Mon May 04, 2009 4:54 am » by **Spock**

LowSix wrote:Same rule of logical fallacy applies to both religions.
The mistaken advocacy of The God of Law, instead of the God of Grace.
The God of Law orders beheadings, and Crusades...
the punishment for both, in the end, i presume, will be vile.

We are under grace, and not under the law.
complicated but VERY relevant distinction...

It's ashamed that such a simple message is so lost in the size of different people underwear.

Mon May 04, 2009 6:49 am » by **Lowsix**

mugenroshi8 wrote: I think we all need to put a foot back on the ground and at the very least, acknowledge none of us here believe ALL members of ANY religion are evil in and of themselves.

I forgot to acknowledge this HUGELY relevant statement.
Sorry mug..great damn point..

Mon May 04, 2009 9:39 am » by **James13**

I think people are just need to settle down. It doesnt matter what you call yourself. If you look at all the religons, they all have have the same moral, laws of God. All God is interested in is in those who love each other and treat everyone with love no matter of race etc. Satan job is to keep the children of Abraham fighting with each other, when they all the same.

Mon May 04, 2009 2:49 pm » by **Bawdiemaude**

when we acknowledge the places where we are the same....it dispells the huge enormous out of control fear....when we accept that we are not talking about everyone under the title of any one religion....then we can open the door to communication....this is a good thing....

wandering a little to the side....one thing that perplexes me about this thread and another where low 6 was being attacked on this forum...i am curious to know when we DO have a moral obligation to step in to someones rescue?

if you are a christian is it any of your business to rescue the girl stoned to death
and if you are a muslim is it any of your business to point out certain hypocrisy of christianity?
etc etc

if my ( i can only speak for myself) intention is to raise my vibration/ consciousness and if i believe this ripples out and touches others, do i still have a moral obligation to actively intervene?

where is that line drawn? I am not convinced that 'i' can change anyones opinion if they have an entrenched religious/ political belief- i generally believe that LIFE is the only thing that can mould or break like that......
but am i being a cop out?

i think about hitler and one reason he succeeded was the quiet acceptance of non jews. or in Argentina... or anywhere where evil deeds are done in the dark of night ...

when do we stand up and fight someone elses battle? was this thread started as cry to fight for justice or to breed hate and fear?

Tue May 05, 2009 10:05 am » by **Clawspiracy**

...is it any of your business to rescue the girl stoned to death
and if you are a muslim is it any of your business to point out certain hypocrisy of christianity?

Yes! If I could take back one tour or day just to be there in that crowd and stop these men from killing that girl, I would. If I were handed the keys to a time machine I would go back and stop them... Yes. Because in my heart I know it is wrong what they did, the energy they released into the world infects us all... It was a part of me they stoned, and a part of me that did the stoning... How to reconcile this? I don't know. I hope that God will show me what my heart and mind cannot comprehend...

if my ( i can only speak for myself) intention is to raise my vibration/ consciousness and if i believe this ripples out and touches others, do i still have a moral obligation to actively intervene?

But are you truly speaking for yourself? Or do we speak for all of us? Our intention could be stronger if we focused on it together, no? So if our moral ground was to state that "No one should be stoned to death because of who they love..." is there not a chance for such a thing to happen? And surely you must realize that you've answered your own question...

..."this ripples out and touches others..." Exactly. By deciding to send out good energy, you are helping the world to heal the energy these men wrought. Just my opinion, but I stand by it firm.

Tue May 05, 2009 11:03 pm » by **Slith**

This is nothing new, it's been going on since the birth of Islam. We just have a way of conveying it now for everyone to be more exposed to it. Media! It's not just the Islamics, it's the Christians and the other religions that have opposing views. All from "sacred books"? Go Figure

Wed May 06, 2009 8:16 am » by **Clawspiracy**

Claw, I respect your view on this. But, how would you stop them? Would you kill them? Would that make you feel better? Or would you 'turn the other cheek'?
Either way, it's a bit of a dillema.

@ concrete

I would roll in there with a huge Humvee, whisk her away, find her boyfriend, and put them on a plane off to be married. Then I would fly over the area with millions of leaflets saying "God is Love" and try to teach them tolerance... Those idiots...

And if that didn't work... Send in a few Marines...

Shut up! It's my fantasy damn it! :yell:

Wed May 06, 2009 8:26 am » by **Clawspiracy**

Now, try to form a relationship with a muslim and see how long it works.

When I was in High School, I met a guy and we became good friends. We would go fishing, and hang out, trying to win dates with girls and such...

He was a Muslim, and his only 'beef' with us (and this was 1981) was that the world stood by as his country was taken over and he lost everything he had. When I asked him where he was from, "He said, Palestine..." I had never heard of it. He said, very patiently... "What is now called Israel...That was my country..."

We never argued about Religion, and he saved my ass a couple of times from people that would have kicked by short little ass back then. We drifted into different directions as friends often do, but I never forgot about "Palestine". I would bring it up in history and most of the teachers would scoff it off. I always wondered why.

If Jesus was here today, he would try to forge just as many friendships with Muslims as he would with anyone else. He is a pretty good role model of a human being.

Wed May 06, 2009 9:42 am » by **Drextin**

I love it when people claim to have musilm "friends" that somehow are so different than any other muslim in the world. Even if their "friends" were different, which I doubt, they would not constitute a rethinking of my position. So they resort to the "you must be ignorant and down on the farm". Damn. You got me. I know we should all be worldly and run off and live in some little european town hiding from the real world as we cast our all knowing eyes down on those still in the race.

I will you give you one thing cornbread. I was beginning to think your testicles were made of leather the way you straddled the fence as you do so often. Better jump back up there though before someone thinks you might actually agree with them. Can't have that kinda responsibility dangling over ya head.......isn't that many more places to run to. Remember.....no matter how far we run........we're still the product of where we're from.

Low6, I appreciate you overly educated way of explaining the reason people hate religion. Though I find no common ground with any of it. If more christians thought like spock and others I know then there would be less backlash towards christianity. But the micromanaging of every aspect of someone's life just does not fly in this day and age.

Lainn, have you read the "Koran" no need to use the fancier Qur'an since it doesn't make anyone seem any smarter. I've read the bible and nothing about it seems to fit with the christian beliefs and the way they conduct themselves so what would reading the "Koran" prove? That is exactly the question someone with no experience with the actual practices of the Islamic faith would ask. Someone with a little common sense might counter.......have you read a newspaper? You do realize you would be stoned to death by most Islamic countries just for many of your profiles pics.........right lainn?

When you consider the dangers inflicted upon the world by radical muslims and the fact if asked to chose sides the "peaceful" Islamic people would chose the radicals when it came down to it.....it's safe to say there is nothing but evil and violence coming from that religion.

To me to think otherwise is the backwards thinking that you try and impose on anyone who doesn't believe there is any good in it.......

Prove me wrong and I will gladly admit it, but remember.....a little good will not outweigh the tremendous evil.......so better make it a strong argument.