Trying to prove that existence has meaning

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PostWed Feb 22, 2012 9:13 am » by Deuem

canubis wrote:troll2rocks>> i was so drunk that night i dont remember posting sry dude :) i have actually been doing my best not to use the word and in all cases any words or homophobic rants lol, i will never get along however and so even more reason not to converse with me directly and well all have a nice day :)

samuelthemule>> have you seen my Alien Key Theory of 9?

Thanks for the step up Canubis. I hope we can get along from now on. Lets move on.........
I truly believe that if we were in a bar slugging down shots and beers, we would get along.
Deuem :cheers:

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PostWed Feb 22, 2012 9:29 am » by Willease

Something caused the Creator God to decide to create man on this planet. Few indeed know what it was and what the purpose for humanity’s presence really is. Where are we going, and what is the way?

These are the most vital questions. Yet, I repeat still again, science cannot give the answers. No religion has the explanation. No university teaches this most important of all knowledge.

Earth Not Originally Populated by MAN

Most people know almost nothing about God. To understand ourselves, why we are, where we are going, and how, we need to know more about our Creator.

Our present life is like going on a journey. Suppose you had just won a prize—an all-expense-paid trip to some other country. Wouldn’t you want to know where you are going, how to get there, and as many things as possible about this trip? Should we not, then, be even more filled with eager anticipation to know as much as possible about this one great trip of life? And to know that, you need to know some things about the God who is sending you and providing the way.

It is vital at this point, then, to know this—as revealed in the Bible: The Eternal God not only is Creator of all that is, but is the Ruler over all He creates and also Educator—that is, the Revealer of basic knowledge. He reveals knowledge basic and vital to know—knowledge otherwise inaccessible to man. Yet mankind—generally—has rejected revelation as a source of basic knowledge.

What God creates He maintains. What He creates He creates for a purpose. He intends it to be put to use—a right use that preserves and improves. This use, maintenance and improvement is controlled in the process of united, cooperative action, by the government of God.

This Earth, originally, was intended to be the abode of a third of all the angels. The angels, beholding the Earth at its creation, found it so beautiful and perfect they shouted spontaneously for joy! (Job 38:4-7). It was to provide a glorious opportunity for them. They were to work it, produce from it, and preserve and increase its beauty.

And at this point, it is well to understand the nature of God’s original creation: It is like the unfinished furniture available in some stores. This furniture is “in the raw”—it is finished all but for the final varnish, polish, or paint. Some can save money by doing this finishing themselves—provided they have the skill to do so. This furniture may be of fine and superb quality—yet lacking the final beautifying completion.

So it is with God’s creation. It is perfect, but subject to a beautifying finish which God intended angels to accomplish. The original “unfinished” creation was produced by God alone. But He intended angels, prehistorically, and man, now, to utilize creative power—to finish this part in God’s creation—of adding the final beautifying and utilitarian phases of what shall be the final completed creation!

And whether or not it had been revealed to the angels, it was a supreme trial and test. It was to be the proving ground of obedience to God’s government and their fitness to develop into final finished creation the millions of other planets in the vast universe. For what is revealed in God’s Word indicates that God had created the entire physical universe at the same time He created the Earth. The seventh word in Genesis 1:1 should be translated “heavens.”

Radioactive elements and the law of radioactivity prove that there was a time when matter did not exist. God is a spirit. God is composed of spirit. God was before all else—the Creator of all. Angels were created prior to the Earth. What God reveals strongly implies that matter had never existed before the original creation of the Earth—that the entire physical universe was brought into being at that time.

So the angel potential was to take over the entire universe—to improve and finish the billions of physical planets surrounding the uncountable stars, many of which are suns. The sun in our solar system is merely an average-size sun. Some which we see as stars are actually many, many times larger than our sun. Our solar system, vast beyond the imagination of most minds, is only a part of our galaxy, and there are many galaxies! In other words, the physical universe which the mighty God created is vast beyond imagination! How great is the great God!

He intended angels, and now man, to have a vital part in the final creation of the endless universe!

(But God may not have then fully revealed this awesome potential to the angels, for one third of them set out to take it from Him by force, without first qualifying.)

For this far-reaching purpose, God established His government on Earth over them. The administration of the government of God over this globe was delegated to the super-archangel—the great cherub Lucifer.

Lucifer was the supreme masterpiece it was possible for even the great God to create as an individually created entity. The Bible reveals the existence of just two others of the same rank—Michael and Gabriel.

Bear in mind that even the holy angels and archangels—including this super cherub Lucifer—of necessity were endowed with ability to think, to reason, to form attitudes, and to make choices and decisions.

God started this Lucifer out with everything going for him. He sealed up the sum of wisdom, beauty and perfection. He was perfect in all his ways from the instant he was created until (Ezekiel 28:15) iniquity—rebellion, lawlessness—was found in him.

He had been trained and was thoroughly experienced in administration of the government of God at the very throne of the endless universe! He was one of the two cherubs whose wings covered the throne of God the Most High (Ezekiel 28:14; Exodus 25:20).

He was created gloriously beautiful—perfect in beauty, but he allowed vanity to seize him. Then he turned to erroneous reasoning. God’s law—the basis of God’s government—is the way of love—outgoing concern for the good and welfare of others, love toward God in obedience, humility and worship—the way of giving, sharing, helping, cooperating. He reasoned that competition would be better than cooperation. It would be an incentive to excel, to try harder, to accomplish. There would be more pleasure in serving self and more enjoyment.

He turned against God’s law of love. He became jealous of God, envious, and resentful against God. He allowed lust and greed to fill him, and he became bitter. This inspired a spirit of violence! He deliberately became his Maker’s adversary and enemy. That was his choice, not God’s—yet allowed by God!

God changed his name to what he became, Satan the devil—which means adversary, competitor, enemy.

He directed his supernatural powers henceforth to evil. He became bitter not only against God, but against God’s law. He used his subtile wiles of deception to lead the angels under him into disloyalty, rebellion, and revolt against the Creator and finally into a war of aggression and violence to attempt to depose God and seize the throne of the universe.

As long as Lucifer remained loyal and administered the government of God faithfully, this Earth was filled with wonderful and perfect peace. The angels were vigorously happy to the extent of joy! The law of God’s government is the way of life that causes and produces peace, happiness, prosperity and well-being. Sin is the way of life that has caused all existing evils.

The penalty of sin by the angels was not death—for God had made them immortal spirit beings who cannot die. What God gave them was this Earth as their abode and opportunity to qualify to possess and beautify the entire universe.

Their penalty (they are still awaiting final judgment up to now) was disqualification—forfeiture of their grand opportunity, perversion of mind, and a colossal Earthwide CATACLYSM of destruction wreaked upon this Earth.

As a result, the Earth came to the condition briefly described in Genesis 1:2—(the Hebrew words “tohu and bohu” here mean waste and empty, chaotic and in extreme confusion) with water covering the whole face of the Earth, in deep darkness. Lucifer was created a perfect bringer of light. Now he became author of darkness, error, confusion and evil.

So the rebellion of the angels that sinned (2 Peter 2:4-6; Jude 6-7; Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:12-17) brought this extreme cataclysm to the Earth.

And in all probability it did more!

Whatever God creates is created in perfect condition. The other planets were not created as dead hulks of waste and empty decay—like our moon and Mars. We do not yet know too much about the other planets, but every evidence so far indicates this same state of decay.

We have already covered the awesome, incredible potential of man. Originally, this potential of being put over the universe was the potential of the angels. But they disqualified themselves.

God did not create our moon and the planets in this state of waste and decay. The evidence of what God does reveal strongly indicates that the entire material universe was created when the Earth was created. As just stated, God is not the author of waste, decay and destruction, but Satan is. It seems, therefore, based on what is now revealed, that a similar cataclysm of destruction most likely happened to the surface of our moon and the planets at the time it happened to this Earth! And all this was caused by the rebellion of Lucifer and his angels! But notice what God did next.

In Psalm 104:30, “Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.”

Back, now, to Genesis 1:2, “And the earth was [became] without form, and void [Heb. tohu and bohu—chaotic, in confusion, waste and empty]; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

God now renewed the face of the Earth, preparing it to become the abode of MAN!

But WHY?

Why God Created Man!

Here is a truth perhaps never before understood by man!


Look, now, at the situation as God must have seen and considered it. God has given us minds like the mind of God—only inferior and limited. God made us in His image, after His likeness (form and shape), only composed of matter instead of spirit. But God says to us, “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus” (Philippians 2:5). We can learn to think His thoughts after Him. If we have His Spirit, we can learn to think, to some degree, even as He thinks!

How must God have looked at this situation after the colossal debacle of Lucifer and the angels that sinned?

This Lucifer was the supreme masterpiece of God’s creative power as a single, separately created spirit being! He was created the most perfect in beauty, mentality, knowledge, power, intellect and wisdom within the almighty power of God to create in a being, with power to think, reason, make choices and decisions on his own. God knew that no higher, more perfect being could be created as an initial creation.

Yet this superior being, trained and experienced at the very throne of the government of God over the universe, had resorted to wrong reasoning and made a diabolical perverted decision. He worked on the angels under him until he turned their minds to rebellion also. This, incidentally, might have taken Lucifer millions of years. In all probability he had to begin perverting the minds of his angels one at a time, at first. He had to cause them to feel dissatisfied, wronged by God, and inject into them resentment and bitterness.

When Lucifer allowed thoughts of vanity, jealousy, envy, lust and greed, then resentment and rebellion, to enter and occupy his mind, something happened to his mind! His mind became perverted, distorted, twisted! His thinking became warped. God gave him and the angels control over their own minds. They can never straighten them out—never again think rationally, honestly, rightly.

I have had a number of personal experiences with demons through a few demon-possessed people. I have cast out demons through the name of Christ and power of the Holy Spirit. Some demons are silly, like spoiled children. Some are crafty, sharp, shrewd, subtile. Some are belligerent, some are sassy, some are sullen and morose. But all are perverted, warped, twisted.

Look, now, again at God’s overall supreme PURPOSE. It is to develop godly, perfect character in the millions of mankind who shall do this creative completion throughout the entire limitless physical universe!


For this purpose, God started by creating millions of angels—spirit beings. Then He created the physical universe and this Earth, and He put angels here to develop this Earth, ruled by the government of God.

But the king He set as ruler—Lucifer—rebelled, revolted, misled a third of all the angels, and the government of God no longer governed the Earth.

Lucifer was the supreme masterpiece. If Lucifer and his angels went wrong, there was no assurance the other two thirds would not.

As God surveyed this tragic cataclysm, He must have realized it left Himself as the ONLY Being who will not and CANNOT SIN! The only possible assurance of accomplishing His great purpose was for Him now to reproduce Himself!

But let us answer another question before proceeding:

WHY is it impossible for God to sin? No greater power exists that will prevent Him—but God has simply by His own power—supreme and above all power—set Himself that He will not!

What God saw was this. No being less than God could be certainly relied upon never to sin, that is, never to turn against God’s law, and God’s government, which makes possible His ultimate purpose. To fulfill His purpose for the entire universe, God saw that nothing less than Himself, and His holy, righteous and perfect character, could be absolutely relied upon to carry out His supreme purpose throughout the entire, vast, endless universe!

The question might be raised: Could not God have known, in advance, what Lucifer and the angels under him would do? Doesn’t God know everything? The answer is no. If God were to have known in advance what choice they would make, He would have had to force them to make it—taken away from them power to think, to reason, to have a choice, to make decisions. God does not choose to know, in advance, what you or I will be thinking, reasoning, deciding, tomorrow or in the future. He gave these spirit beings, as He gives us, the power to think for ourselves, to choose, to make decisions. Otherwise we should be nothing more than automatons, doing what we are compelled to do. He simply did not choose to know. His purpose includes the development of character in His created beings.

All that had happened caused God to now undertake the most stupendous creation of all—that of REPRODUCING HIMSELF! The ultimate creation of God beings in His God Family—superior to angels!
(my fingers are cramping, more on this later)
Last edited by Willease on Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostWed Feb 22, 2012 9:34 am » by Troll2rocks

gonzo63 wrote:Well said, Troll. As a gay man, I thank you. And thank for proving that your recent promotion is well deserved.

Thanks man, its time people started thinking of people as people and not their sexuality. I judge on personality not culture race sexuality of belief system, you eliminate those mythological ideals, you are left with just people, all the same and only different in minor and completely unimportant ways.

Censorship debunking & disinformation, it's all in a days work.

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PostWed Feb 22, 2012 9:59 am » by SamueltheLion

i used to think about this a lot because the truth is i was a bit of a mopey fucked up individual, mal adjusted, nihilistic, hateful, cowardly, depressed.

what i realized was, depression and inertia make even the greatest reasons seem like nothing, because they seem impossible. you cannot step beyond the gray veil.

i think the best reply i can give you is, life can have meaning, if you take it for what it's worth,
instead of overthinking, or underthinking, or taking it for granted, or falling into one of the billion's of traps. me replying to you can mean that i care enough to give you my opinion because it might help you, and me replying can also mean that i'm such a needy bitch i need validation from a teenager (probably crossed your mind?), it can MEAN a whole load of things, but when i stepped past this kind of, quagmire of melancholy, what i realized was: when your life does have meaning you stop having to ask about what it is.

the mistake in my mind, which so many of the modern philosopher's have made, is seeking meaning in words themselves, instead of realizing, as john locke so simply pointed out: words are symbols for things, if we stopped mistaking them as things themselves we would have a lot less arguments!

if you go and do boxing, or go for a really good run, or have sex, or go swimming, or see a beautiful sunset, or spend time with a really good friend and connect, or spend time walking for hours and lose track of time and the world witnessing the beauty of the forest, you stop thinking, and the meaning is clear as day. it is (very often) only when you begin to think in terms of words that you become tired of existence itself. this is a trick. don't fall for it (:

of course, if you're not, and this was overprojection, then ignore my crazy ramble, and i recommend this book to you (even if you think you're not an artist).

the other meaning of life is... not to be eaten by aliens

i guess beauty is one of the meaning's of life for me, and i believe what plato said:
beauty is the glory of truth.

so join in

come with us, we are here for you!


imagine how you will feel, and you will already feel as you imagine



Your faith will make you whole

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PostWed Feb 22, 2012 11:06 am » by SamueltheLion

fractals meaaaan... life is awesome!


(that's actually a painting)

even in the digital world... we can have flowers

the structure of life and the universe and everything living in it is... a torus, what is a torus? a rollercoaster ride, which takes time to climb up or down on the outside, and a very short time to whizz through on the inside

“There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.”

guess who said that?

without googling

this is a real cabbage by the way.


can you see the youniverse?

every breath you take...

there's even something for the trolls

the meaning of life is so gigantic, that anyone who tries to just get it intellectualy, inexhorably falls into the myst of melancholy, as it is too big a task for any one being.
when you let go of your own dogma, and admit "i don't know what life is, but i wanna live it", then it opens up to you again (: the universe gets on your side when you stop fighting it, and other people, and the main thing that happens is: your perspective changes, and you realize, it's a challenge to be enjoyed (: if everything were easy, we'd be bored. I guess we all feel like "forget it" well what can i do about the nwo? or the... xyz, state of the world, well, start small (:

peace man, peace.


hmmm, you know these goosebump things? i heard someone describe it more accurately as "spiritual electricity", it happens to me all the time when i am honest, dedicated, and open to higher powers. I gotta stop forgetting and getting sucked into mainstream life.

one of my guides here has a fitting analogy for what we humans do: he calls us red and white cells: the white cells think and act, the red cells just act, and try to think as little as possible, they essentially take orders, or directions. the white cells are the guardians.

of course, this has nothing to do with skin colour, but the way the immune system functions, and how we can copy it

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PostFri Mar 02, 2012 8:43 pm » by Poooooot

otoel wrote:what evidence do you use to prove that life has meaning?

Short answer:

Long answer:
Your mind is infinite. The universe is infinite. Look within yourself, into your mind. Beyond your body, beyond anything superficial that is happening in the world. Close your eyes and look into your soul, and see who you are. Look beyond your human-ness, and at your core you will find love. The most basic emotion. Your first true emotion (the love you had for your mother from the time you were in the womb). Love is nourishment for the soul, and our souls need to be nourished in order to grow. That is why we are here. - If you question the concept of "souls," then ask yourself this: Who are you? Not your physical body, but your inner workings. The "you" that you can't see.

Of course, I have no proof of this, as no one really does, but this is what I have felt/gathered throughout my life. I've been through a lot of darkness and changes in my 30 years. I don't claim to have any kind of superior knowledge at all, and if others disagree with me, that is their right as fellow wo/men... But I honestly feel that love is the base for all. For without love, no one is truly happy.

iwanci wrote:The meaning of life is simple.. eat, drink, breathe & procreate...
Eliminate any one of these and life would cease.
Simple really... Everything else is filler....

These are not the meanings of life, rather they are the necessities to sustain a physical life. There is a difference. :wink:

iwanci wrote:Being 'gay' has nothing to do with 'living' my friend, it is just another state of mind like any other - there is NO right nor wrong with sexuality, it is 'simply' what it is. If everyone was gay and the sexes did not mix, there would be NO procreation and life would cease. Although 'procreation' involves having sex, sex does not necesarily involve procreation. I did say procreation, not sex... difference.

The sooner we eliminate ANY discriminatory labels the sooner we will be closer to some sort of equality and order.


Well said :flop:
Matthew 7
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

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PostFri Mar 02, 2012 9:32 pm » by Richc

I think there is a reason for existance oto.
But that reason is more like a search for truth..

Take ego.. The " I ". The "Self"

I am more sure than ever that when we are born into this reality we have no ego.

A baby has no ego. A very young child has no ego. They are part of the whole. The "we".

As soon as that baby/child starts absorbing information from parents, tv, school the ego begins to grow and grow.
It fractures the "we" into the "i".
It grows like a virus and takes hold of the person permanently.!

Some people as they get older become infected by ego more than others. Some are resistant to it. Look back through history and you will spot those that are ego junkies and those that are not.

Many will go through life and never find the answer to this search for truth.
Many will not even know they were looking. Most will conciously not even bother looking.

So the point to this life is to find the cure to the ego virus. To return the "i" to the "we"
Become merged once again with the whole.

And now to sound like a hippy.
The Beatles had it right. "All You Need Is Love."
John Lennon had it right "Imagine"

Listen to the words.... :cheers:

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