UNEMPLOYMENT FOR BLACK YOUTH IN AMERICA 49%

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PostThu Oct 14, 2010 10:36 am » by Knowthetruth


aragajag wrote:Interesting stuff mentioned. I never liked getting work in the so called normal way of resumes and interviews. I preferred getting the job at the pub or by word of mouth and it has led to some great experience and good pays.



For me as well. I usually get into Jobs via Friends or Family. I have only walked in a few times for a proper interview.

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PostFri Oct 15, 2010 12:25 am » by Thebluecanary


hackjames wrote:
I think there is some value in what you're saying, but again, you're focusing on your view to the exclusion of anything else. I note that you concede there "may be more to it", but then immediately state a "simple truth" that clearly states that (practically) there isn't anything else to it.


Perhaps I should have been more clear (though I believe I did state in my original post) that I am basing my comment on 3 years spent hiring and interviewing in one city, in North Carolina, in the American south. I cannot speak for anywhere else in the country or the world, as I have no valid frame of reference for those places. I should have perhaps qualified it as a subjective truth, based on the sample of the population to which I was exposed. I would guess that over a period of 3 years we had approximately 30 job openings, with over 100 applications received each time. I personally was not in the building 24/7, but I would say that in that time I personally received applications from approximately 200 young black males. Of those with whom I personally interacted, I would say that 96% presented themselves in some way which made the idea of hiring them impossible. This is not a question of racial stereotyping; yes, there were also people of other sexes and races who were equally inappropriate. However, I believe the original post dealt specifically with black youth, with the overall quoted demographics leaning most towards black males.

You expected certain things when hiring, while expectations of other employers may/do swing wildly towards any potential extreme. Though I'm not going to suggest that there are not "standards" to a large degree, that fact doesn't address why they're there, how similar they are from one area to the next, and so on. It's just an oversimplification to say there is a right way to interview, and that knowing it will make anyone more fit for a job.


Yes, there are expectations when it comes to hiring. And I admit, the expectations for the business where I did the hiring were greater than they might have been for, say, McDonalds or a grocery store. However, the predominant behaviors and presentation of the majority of these young men was glaring enough to pretty much insure that they would have a hard time being employed anywhere. I'm talking about so bad that I was embarrassed for them. And yes, it may seem to be an oversimplification to imply that there is one right way and one wrong way to do something, but you must be willing to admit that in a climate where competition for jobs is very fierce (such as in this city, in this state) someone who presents themselves as pretty much not giving a fuck is going to get trumped by someone who went that extra mile to at least not come in to ask me for a job with his ass enclosed only by boxer briefs hanging out of his sagging pants.

It may not be anyone's favorite thing, but there is a certain "game" to be played when it comes to that first impression you have to make on an employer. I'm certainly no great fan of conformity, but I know that if I go into a job interview in a too tight too short halter dress and gogo boots, or in a dirty t-shirt and sweatpants with unwashed hair, assumptions are going to be made about my understanding of appropriate behavior and as such the job that I would do if hired. It's a quick and dirty process most of the time, and that first impression like it or not carries a bunch of weight when you are talking about a hiring manager who sees tons of people every day who want to apply for jobs, on top of the regular day to day duties of running a busy retail store. I did not have the time nor the energy to get to know each applicant on a deep personal level. I don't know anyone in that position who does. Perhaps one of those young men might have been a perfect fit for the job...however, they were so clueless as to how to present themselves that they could never get in the door. I don't think it's unreasonable or prejudicial to have a certain minimum standard for who gets a call back for a job. Things like bathing, not reeking of weed, not half filling out the job application leaving out important things like work history or references, not asking for a job application at the same time as you are trying to sell me stolen merchandise from another store with the anti-theft tags still on it. Behaving like an adult, in other words, acting like you have some modicum of respect for the whole process even if you're faking it. Faking it at least takes effort. Ultimately, as an employee myself, I had to think of the good of the business and my ability to have confidence that the person hired would do a good job, treat the customers and the merch with respect, and be reliable. "Respect" and "reliable" were not words that could remotely be associated with the majority of these young men.

And again, yes there were people who acted inappropriate of all races and sexes, but the overwhelming majority that I saw were young black males. Therefore, I guess what I'm trying to say that when we talk about certain demographics having a hard time finding a job, maybe we should not simply assume that it is only a case of a hostile society trying to hold down a particular race. Perhaps we should also consider the cultural values that young black men are shown on TV and in entertainment and think about the fact that they are emulating these "role models" in ways that are detrimental to them, with an apparent lack of education or reinforcement that there are other ways of behaving and other avenues open to them. I don't discount that there are problems in society and that there is racism which holds people back unnecessarily. However, there is also a question of individual behavior which like it or not colors the way a person is viewed.

This isn't personal, I hope you understand. I'm only talking about the specific argument you're making, not you. :]


And yes, I do understand that it isn't personal on your end, nor is it personal on mine. The ability to talk rationally about different points of view even if we disagree is appreciated. I see your points as well, and there is a lot of validity to what you have said, even if I have to agree to disagree on others.
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PostFri Oct 15, 2010 7:58 am » by Hackjames


thebluecanary wrote:And yes, I do understand that it isn't personal on your end, nor is it personal on mine. The ability to talk rationally about different points of view even if we disagree is appreciated. I see your points as well, and there is a lot of validity to what you have said, even if I have to agree to disagree on others.


Good enough, then. I think we've both made our case, and we've done so in a reasonable manner so I'm satisfied. I agree with many of your points, just not completely.
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PostFri Oct 15, 2010 8:56 am » by gregorylewis1


Before you disregard or refute anything I'm going to state please read this whole post. I know that nonetheless people will still disregard or ignore what I have to state, but I will speak facts which opinions have no relevance to. "Black" people started off as slaves, they did not come here of their own free will. "Black" people were never meant to fit into this society. Somethings happened, some people died and "Black" people gained their "freedom" from slavery. After their "freedom" was gained, do you think they just fit into society? The people that onced owned them now accepted them as their equals? "Black" people could not (esp. in those days) live anywhere they pleased and were confined to ghetto's and inner city slums. How do you think the education was in those inner city slums where most "Black" people found work? Alright moving on. About 50 years ago MLK made a speech that "Changed" everything. Some laws were passed, somethings positive finally happened, but how much has really changed? The majority of "Black" people still live in inner city slums where we all know the education and the way of life is not so great; actually in contrast to how well some of the people in this society live it's horrid. So I would LOVE to know how people expect "Black" people with the education they recieve and the life they live to come into a job interview and act professional. It really doesn't make sense that people expect "black" people who weren't suppose thrive here, the people who were/are thrown into the parts of the country where no one wants to live, and the people who have the worst standard of living/education to come into a job interview and act professional. Take a step back a look at the bigger picture. So yes it is the system who has failed "black" people. If you take a look at the beggining which was really not that long ago (about 300 years) you'll see. There really is no argument to the facts. The only way out is if "Black" people realize how bad they've been played and do WHATEVER is neccesary to get out of the conditions that they live in. I just hope if "black" ever do, they do it out of love for their own people and not out of hate for ignorant "white" people. I can do a whole nother post about the "black" "freedom" "change" and "white" but that's irrelevant to the topic. Also what color I am is irrelevant, these are facts people.

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PostFri Oct 15, 2010 9:25 am » by Christomite


Well James my racism started in prison.I did a year fro drinking and driving and have since been four years sober.Anyway,in that place there is no place to escape.There is no safe place to go to construct your own views and outlook.In there it is what it is.They don't like us james and never will.There will never be a point where white people have felt enough guilt for them.There will never be a program where the majority or the state gives them "enough"....to a point to where it is said..."Ok we are cool now,because of this help we can now help ourselves,thanks."I hate to break it to you guys but the poor minorities will sure bitch up a storm about not having a job,but try and give them one and see what happens.I'm talking as a whole.I've worked beside some good decent black family men but....I would just like to see people get realistic.Pretending doesnt help.It may make you feel better about yourself and all you liberals get pat eachother on the back for what fine compassionate people you are but it doesnt change anything because the majority of the minority has no respect for you and will take advantage of your kindness and feel mighty awesome about it.I know minorities can be white trash too...I know that,but here's an example.I'm in my second year of collage.I study in the library as do many people of many colors,but you what??It's always the black people yelling and talking to eachother like they were in a bar.It's always the black people taking up the computers to watch gangster rap videos while others are waiting to do homework or research.It's always black people that get right in front of me in the hallway and slow down on purpose.....and nobody says shit....and they know you won't say shit because they will freak out and play the race card or just flat out beat your ass right then and there...all of them together.I don't like them and I know why they don't have jobs. :yell: I don't feel guilty for not liking them.I had nothing to do with that shit,and niether did any of my family line.One more thing james.I don't lose sleep if you don't think I'm handling the situation "rationaly" because I can't stand that smug self rightous text book liberal attitude you have.My point is that I don't feel guilty for the way I feel and your non hate speech does'nt make me feel less than you in any way....and it's crazy to think that I could get kicked of this site for simple complaints like that but if a black guy was on here he could go strait militant on whites and get applause.

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PostFri Oct 15, 2010 9:31 am » by Christomite


gregorylewis1 wrote:Before you disregard or refute anything I'm going to state please read this whole post. I know that nonetheless people will still disregard or ignore what I have to state, but I will speak facts which opinions have no relevance to. "Black" people started off as slaves, they did not come here of their own free will. "Black" people were never meant to fit into this society. Somethings happened, some people died and "Black" people gained their "freedom" from slavery. After their "freedom" was gained, do you think they just fit into society? The people that onced owned them now accepted them as their equals? "Black" people could not (esp. in those days) live anywhere they pleased and were confined to ghetto's and inner city slums. How do you think the education was in those inner city slums where most "Black" people found work? Alright moving on. About 50 years ago MLK made a speech that "Changed" everything. Some laws were passed, somethings positive finally happened, but how much has really changed? The majority of "Black" people still live in inner city slums where we all know the education and the way of life is not so great; actually in contrast to how well some of the people in this society live it's horrid. So I would LOVE to know how people expect "Black" people with the education they recieve and the life they live to come into a job interview and act professional. It really doesn't make sense that people expect "black" people who weren't suppose thrive here, the people who were/are thrown into the parts of the country where no one wants to live, and the people who have the worst standard of living/education to come into a job interview and act professional. Take a step back a look at the bigger picture. So yes it is the system who has failed "black" people. If you take a look at the beggining which was really not that long ago (about 300 years) you'll see. There really is no argument to the facts. The only way out is if "Black" people realize how bad they've been played and do WHATEVER is neccesary to get out of the conditions that they live in. I just hope if "black" ever do, they do it out of love for their own people and not out of hate for ignorant "white" people. I can do a whole nother post about the "black" "freedom" "change" and "white" but that's irrelevant to the topic. Also what color I am is irrelevant, these are facts people.



So that's the solution...stick your tail between your legs in guilt.It's not like their american culture here has exacly made good role models for any children.Hell,all kids see on T.V. is gangters a drinkin a smokin and a gettin paid.And yes I know about heavy metal and think it sucks too and know about exploitation of companies but when are people just going to get real?I don't get it...it's like some of you are programmed to feel a certain way no matter what.

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PostFri Oct 15, 2010 10:07 am » by Redwoodrick


I feel I must weigh in here..The problem is multifaceted.Of course no one wants to hire an illiterate,socially inept person.And it needs to be said that at the point of job interview it is not the fault of the prospective employer that the black person applying did not receive the proper training and education needed to have a chance in the job market.
But that only goes so far.I live in California, and I can plainly see an attitude of soft pedaled racial prejudice in the hiring practices of the white community.Prejudice has not disappeared at all.It is true that cultural influence and education go a ways toward disqualifying minorities, but it also appears obvious that our colored citizens,especially black males,are being held back by lingering racial fear/guilt and stereotypes.No way around it.You can be a well dressed,well spoken and well qualified black man and lose out in a surprisingly large section of the employment market.Doesn't take a genius to see it.And I do agree that it is dangerous to have such a large disenfranchised presence in our country.
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To be honest I'm not even sure what "alien" means. Alien to what? The universe is teeming with life.

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PostFri Oct 15, 2010 10:17 am » by Hackjames


redwoodrick wrote:I feel I must weigh in here..The problem is multifaceted.Of course no one wants to hire an illiterate,socially inept person.And it needs to be said that at the point of job interview it is not the fault of the prospective employer that the black person applying did not receive the proper training and education needed to have a chance in the job market.
But that only goes so far.I live in California, and I can plainly see an attitude of soft pedaled racial prejudice in the hiring practices of the white community.Prejudice has not disappeared at all.It is true that cultural influence and education go a ways toward disqualifying minorities, but it also appears obvious that our colored citizens,especially black males,are being held back by lingering racial fear/guilt and stereotypes.No way around it.You can be a well dressed,well spoken and well qualified black man and lose out in a surprisingly large section of the employment market.Doesn't take a genius to see it.And I do agree that it is dangerous to have such a large disenfranchised presence in our country.


Well said, thanks. Complex problems require discussion, not idealism or claims of absolute knowledge.
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PostFri Oct 15, 2010 10:19 am » by Hackjames


gregorylewis1 wrote:Before you disregard or refute anything I'm going to state please read this whole post. I know that nonetheless people will still disregard or ignore what I have to state, but I will speak facts which opinions have no relevance to. "Black" people started off as slaves, they did not come here of their own free will. "Black" people were never meant to fit into this society. Somethings happened, some people died and "Black" people gained their "freedom" from slavery. After their "freedom" was gained, do you think they just fit into society? The people that onced owned them now accepted them as their equals? "Black" people could not (esp. in those days) live anywhere they pleased and were confined to ghetto's and inner city slums. How do you think the education was in those inner city slums where most "Black" people found work? Alright moving on. About 50 years ago MLK made a speech that "Changed" everything. Some laws were passed, somethings positive finally happened, but how much has really changed? The majority of "Black" people still live in inner city slums where we all know the education and the way of life is not so great; actually in contrast to how well some of the people in this society live it's horrid. So I would LOVE to know how people expect "Black" people with the education they recieve and the life they live to come into a job interview and act professional. It really doesn't make sense that people expect "black" people who weren't suppose thrive here, the people who were/are thrown into the parts of the country where no one wants to live, and the people who have the worst standard of living/education to come into a job interview and act professional. Take a step back a look at the bigger picture. So yes it is the system who has failed "black" people. If you take a look at the beggining which was really not that long ago (about 300 years) you'll see. There really is no argument to the facts. The only way out is if "Black" people realize how bad they've been played and do WHATEVER is neccesary to get out of the conditions that they live in. I just hope if "black" ever do, they do it out of love for their own people and not out of hate for ignorant "white" people. I can do a whole nother post about the "black" "freedom" "change" and "white" but that's irrelevant to the topic. Also what color I am is irrelevant, these are facts people.


You make some good points, I agree with a lot of what you said. I don't know about the facts part at the end though, not to invalidate your experience or anything you wrote.
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PostFri Oct 15, 2010 10:26 am » by Hackjames


christomite wrote:Well James my racism started in prison.I did a year fro drinking and driving and have since been four years sober.Anyway,in that place there is no place to escape.There is no safe place to go to construct your own views and outlook.In there it is what it is.They don't like us james and never will.There will never be a point where white people have felt enough guilt for them.There will never be a program where the majority or the state gives them "enough"....to a point to where it is said..."Ok we are cool now,because of this help we can now help ourselves,thanks."I hate to break it to you guys but the poor minorities will sure bitch up a storm about not having a job,but try and give them one and see what happens.I'm talking as a whole.I've worked beside some good decent black family men but....I would just like to see people get realistic.Pretending doesnt help.It may make you feel better about yourself and all you liberals get pat eachother on the back for what fine compassionate people you are but it doesnt change anything because the majority of the minority has no respect for you and will take advantage of your kindness and feel mighty awesome about it.I know minorities can be white trash too...I know that,but here's an example.I'm in my second year of collage.I study in the library as do many people of many colors,but you what??It's always the black people yelling and talking to eachother like they were in a bar.It's always the black people taking up the computers to watch gangster rap videos while others are waiting to do homework or research.It's always black people that get right in front of me in the hallway and slow down on purpose.....and nobody says shit....and they know you won't say shit because they will freak out and play the race card or just flat out beat your ass right then and there...all of them together.I don't like them and I know why they don't have jobs. :yell: I don't feel guilty for not liking them.I had nothing to do with that shit,and niether did any of my family line.One more thing james.I don't lose sleep if you don't think I'm handling the situation "rationaly" because I can't stand that smug self rightous text book liberal attitude you have.My point is that I don't feel guilty for the way I feel and your non hate speech does'nt make me feel less than you in any way....and it's crazy to think that I could get kicked of this site for simple complaints like that but if a black guy was on here he could go strait militant on whites and get applause.


Sorry you spent time in prison, no sarcasm. That said, your personal experiences do not define the rest of reality. You're on the internet, try making use of that fact to get other perspectives instead of just preaching your own. Who said you should feel guilty, by the way? Did I miss that somewhere?

Maybe if you weren't so insulting I'd want to discuss the rest of your points further. Sorry you don't like my attitude, though it is kinda cute that you're so worked up. ;]
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