'US must exit Afghanistan now to stop Arab unrest'

[Phaeton Profile]

You don't think i was on about you Dom?. No i was on about that Two brain cells Pharton.

My G*d.

You didnt reproduce did you?



Edit: Apologies, shouldnt have said that. You cant help it.

Ill leave you alone now.

[MikSny Profile]

No doubt, we should get the hell out of there and let them turn on themselves. Then fence them in and declare the place no man's land.

Like Escape From New York....

Somebody needs to save this President...

[domdabears Profile Website]

You don't think i was on about you Dom?. No i was on about that Two brain cells Pharton.

No, I know.

[Iwanci Profile]

Phaeton, you use terms like 'I think' this automatically invalidates your statements, or, looking at it in another way, makes your statements just as valid as anyone else's.

Do you actually KNOW what is going on around the world my freind, the TRUTH is that you sir, DO NOT know, not to say that I do know, but the reality is that we all have different pieces of the puzzle as collected through our life experience.

The fact is that if these 'countires' want nothing to do with the west, they can chose to have othing to do with the west. The fact is that for them it is a relationship of convenience where they can shaft and cry poor at the same time, no different to the way the western countries work by the way.

History shows us one thing clearly, no country is ever left unchanged and the change usually involves external influences either directly or indirectly.

So please enough of the bullshit anti American views, lets start discussing the realities. If the US is in Afganistan or anywhere else in the world it is purely because (for whatever reason) that the government of that country allows it. They can always say.. Go Home Please.. I am certain that other countries like Russia and China would see that a withdrawl is enacted.

One sided arguments only do one thing, they show YOUR side...

So please tell us all that the US is in Afganistan against the will of the country... sure some people (even the majority) may opose it, but, as we all know it is the government that sets the music to which its populace dance. So why then are they allowed to stay? Do you not think that the government of Afganistan is not deriving any beneft from this ? And, if the government is deriving benefit, then by its very definition the country is benefiting and again its people are likewise the ultimate beneficiaries. Lots of trauma in the process, but cast you eyes back a few years and see what life was like before all this occured. I will guarantee it was not utopia, and many people suffered and were crying out for help. I recall the president in exile begging for western assistance to stop the mindless suffering of his people.

Wake up guys, whilst I don't profess to know everything nor to be right on anything, I am smart enough to know that the situation is NOT as clear as you may think and that utopian thought processes are as useful as titts on a bull.

[Phaeton Profile]

Phaeton, you use terms like 'I think' this automatically invalidates your statements, or, looking at it in another way, makes your statements just as valid as anyone else's.

When I would have structurally used 'I know', my statements would be invalid. I agree with your second sentence here. Although we ofcourse do have the 'fact factor' to base an opinion in reality.

Do you actually KNOW what is going on around the world my freind, the TRUTH is that you sir, DO NOT know, not to say that I do know, but the reality is that we all have different pieces of the puzzle as collected through our life experience.

Fully agree. Some of us have more pieces than the other though. Not saying that Im referring to myself when stating this. Im just speaking my mind.

The fact is that if these 'countires' want nothing to do with the west, they can chose to have othing to do with the west. The fact is that for them it is a relationship of convenience where they can shaft and cry poor at the same time, no different to the way the western countries work by the way.

No they cannot. How would you think this would work? They say 'leave us alone', and suddenly the US says: "Well, we want your poppyfields, we want your oil, we want your strategical location, but if you put it like that, ok - well leave you alone". Nono. That wont happen.

History shows us one thing clearly, no country is ever left unchanged and the change usually involves external influences either directly or indirectly.

I dont see how this has any meaning in this context. Ofcourse no country is ever left unchanged. Change is a constant, in one way or another.

So please enough of the bullshit anti American views, lets start discussing the realities. If the US is in Afganistan or anywhere else in the world it is purely because (for whatever reason) that the government of that country allows it. They can always say.. Go Home Please.. I am certain that other countries like Russia and China would see that a withdrawl is enacted.

"Go home please" Really? You actually think China and Russia would jump in and force the US to leave??!! Come now. Dont you think the Vietnamese desperately wanted the US to leave? To stop dropping agent orange on their country, maming their children?

Afghanistan allows it because the US first installed Bremer, then Karzai; both puppets of whom the US knows they will be easily swayed to do what the US wants them to do.
If you cant see the central role the US playes throughout the western hemisphere, politically and militarily, in a highly negative way..

You call my opinion 'bullshit anti American views'. I think the facts are on my side. Just look at them.
Did the US not start all major wars the last 60 years? Did the US not invade such countries largely under false pretences? Did you forget how mr. Powell lies to all of us, asking the rest of the West to Invade Iraq based on that lie after 911? Do you not find it very odd no nation reacted to this lie when it was clear it had been a lie? Did the US not invade under the guise of bringing democracy, for the 'good of the people', while in actual fact doing it purely for personal gain? Do you forget that the Us is the biggest arms dealer, biggest drug supplier of the world? They created 'Alqaeda' and Taliban from the Mujaheddin assets they created against the Russians. And present day Iran we are all conditioned to hate, you know, the centre of 'the Axis of Evil', was helped into existence by... the US. The US & GB overthrew the freely elected president Mohammad Mosaddegh through the TPAJAX Project, which culminated to the emergence of the present theocracy.

Im sorry Iwancy, you sound very very naive to me. "Please leave" indeed.

One sided arguments only do one thing, they show YOUR side...

No issue here. Although again, I feel the facts are on my side.

So please tell us all that the US is in Afganistan against the will of the country... sure some people (even the majority) may opose it, but, as we all know it is the government that sets the music to which its populace dance. So why then are they allowed to stay? Do you not think that the government of Afganistan is not deriving any beneft from this ? And, if the government is deriving benefit, then by its very definition the country is benefiting and again its people are likewise the ultimate beneficiaries. Lots of trauma in the process, but cast you eyes back a few years and see what life was like before all this occured. I will guarantee it was not utopia, and many people suffered and were crying out for help. I recall the president in exile begging for western assistance to stop the mindless suffering of his people.

So 'the country' equals its government to you? For me, the country equal the people whom live in it.
Why are they allowed to stay? Because as I said before, the government is intrinsically pro American.
And I know Karzai was elected, but so was Bush [second term]. We all know how 'elections' tend to work in this day and age. The government may very well benefit from the US occupation. The people however, do not. Do you think the Afghani's get ANY of the proceeds their oil generates? Do you really? The fact you think that if the Afghan government benefits, the Afghan people automatically benefits, is rather one dimensional and again, naive. And before this occured, Afghanistan wasnt in complete polarisation, disarray. The country wasnt seeded with DU, creating unrivalled suffering. And concerning the Taliban, you know this group was / is financed, armed by the US.. right? Who's talking about Utopia. Was my nation an utopia before Hitler invaded? No. Does that make the invasion a positive thing? No. About the 'begging for Western assistence by Burhanuddin Rabbani.. We all know the 'problem, reaction, solution'ploy by now, dont we?

Take some time and read the following:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32415.htm

Wake up guys, whilst I don't profess to know everything nor to be right on anything, I am smart enough to know that the situation is NOT as clear as you may think and that utopian thought processes are as useful as titts on a bull.

'Utopian thought processes'?! I am dissapointed you keep trying to paint my opinion as such. Again, lets talk facts, and see who's side they are on my friend.

[Iwanci Profile]

Phaeton.... one thing for you my friend...

Occams Razor...


YES, they would simply have to leave, and NO they do not need the so called 'fields' in any of those countries to grow poppy seeds.. you think they havent any land in their own countries where they could hide some fields? No-one suggested a confrontation with China nor Russia, re-read, there are other ways that the west can be pressured to leave by garnering the favor of other so called super powers through trade and curtains... (based on your worldly knoweldge you should know what I mean here).

Naivety is to believe in a theory with no logic my friend, and what you believe would all come from your preconceptions and biases. What do you really think the US is in Afganistan for? Poppy fields?

Conspiracy theories are just that mate.. 'theories'.

Naivety ??? Really ... I would ask that you re-read what you wrote mate... Not going to argue any points here as you are absolutely free to believe any 'theory' you chose, however, remember one thing... sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.

Express your 'opinion' but never ridicule others for doing likewise mate.

You site 'facts'? Really? In who's eyes are they facts? And from where did you attain those 'facts' exactly?

I am against any bullshit antio anyone sentiment my friend, I am not American nor am I patriotic to any one nation. I am a citizen of this world and I see every man as one and the same. Justifying hatred to any side is wrong no matter how you look at it. Let's hate the US today, and when the wheels turn we will have another power to heap our hatred upon, then we will overthrow that one and replace it with another and another etc etc.. this is the cycle the world has followed and will continue to follow until the real issues are resolved and not just burried under the premise of conspiracy and 'theory'.

Remember one other thing mate... there is NO innocent counrty on the planet and NO innocent government, not one. The victimisation cards have long left the deck.

[Phaeton Profile]

Phaeton.... one thing for you my friend...

Occams Razor...


YES, they would simply have to leave, and NO they do not need the so called 'fields' in any of those countries to grow poppy seeds.. you think they havent any land in their own countries where they could hide some fields? No-one suggested a confrontation with China nor Russia, re-read, there are other ways that the west can be pressured to leave by garnering the favor of other so called super powers through trade and curtains... (based on your worldly knoweldge you should know what I mean here).

Naivety is to believe in a theory with no logic my friend, and what you believe would all come from your preconceptions and biases. What do you really think the US is in Afganistan for? Poppy fields?

Conspiracy theories are just that mate.. 'theories'.

Naivety ??? Really ... I would ask that you re-read what you wrote mate... Not going to argue any points here as you are absolutely free to believe any 'theory' you chose, however, remember one thing... sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.

Express your 'opinion' but never ridicule others for doing likewise mate.

You site 'facts'? Really? In who's eyes are they facts? And from where did you attain those 'facts' exactly?

I am against any bullshit antio anyone sentiment my friend, I am not American nor am I patriotic to any one nation. I am a citizen of this world and I see every man as one and the same. Justifying hatred to any side is wrong no matter how you look at it. Let's hate the US today, and when the wheels turn we will have another power to heap our hatred upon, then we will overthrow that one and replace it with another and another etc etc.. this is the cycle the world has followed and will continue to follow until the real issues are resolved and not just burried under the premise of conspiracy and 'theory'.

Remember one other thing mate... there is NO innocent counrty on the planet and NO innocent government, not one. The victimisation cards have long left the deck.

Dude, I did not ridicule you, surely. I just think you are naive. Is that regarded as ridiculing? Man up guy.
And that was based mostly on your statement that if the inhabitants of any given invaded country would want the invader [US] to leave, they would only need to say so and it would be granted.

Thats just not going to happen mate.

And facts.. Facts like, almost anything I stated is based in fact really [US starting all major wars since 1950'ies - a considerable part under false pretences [Ie. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan], puppet ruler placement, feverishly building military bases in the 'liberated areas', controlling large parts of the natural resources of said area's, feeding and defending the Rothschild created Israeli State and its zionist regime no matter what, seeding said area's with DU, creating Taliban and AlQuada etc etc etc]. If you dont agree, Ill look forward to a point by point refutement.

And again, I never stated anything even remotely similar to the notion that there are 'innocent nations'.
Where you get that from eludes me. Same goes for 'hating' the US. Really disappointing youre trying to put words in my mouth here. What I am trying to do is open people eyes as to WHOM IT IS THAT HAS BEEN THE MAIN WARMONGER, manipulator since the second half of the last century. Which platform has been used as a prime proxy for the internationalists and all the filth they foment. Sounds corny, conspiratorial, but its true. 911 > ME chaos, loss of rights world wide / wallstreet - derivates > financial chaos worldwide. Brittain plays a very large part of all this as well ofcourse.

People need to stop looking at the US as the goody two shoes world- policing beacon of civilization and look at the FACTS. This kind of paradigm is exactly why they can delude other nations into going to war when the USA asks them to. The main reason people will see Iran as the centre of 'the Axis of Evil', when if any nation fits that category, its the USA itself. Now please, dont jump on this last sentence and claim I see the USA as the centre of the Axis of Evil, because as of yet, you have been reading my posts like that. Either consciously of unconsciously.

Lets just end it here, I like you and this is starting to get somewhat unfriendly. Agree to disagree, are you with me?

Cheers mate

[Iwanci Profile]

Paeton, I did not say that the 'invaders' of any given country would simply leave if asked to, you have a habbit of taking peoples words and turning them to try and suit your argument.

The US being in some of these countries (eg Afganistan) is NOT there as an invader (as you would like to believe), they are actually there because they have either been asked to be there by the Afganistan government, or they have negotiated a reason to be there with the same government. Now, it obviously suits the Afganistan government for the US and the west to be there or they would simply tell them to leave. The repercusions of the US and the west leaving would need to be weighed up (which I am certain there would be ramificatons etc).

I understand that you like to believe that people are always victimised and somehow you have all the answers, but the reailities in this world are far greater than what you or I will evr likely understand.

The 'point of refutement' from me comes from a more reliable source than you can ever conjure up with your imagination.. history books. Now, whilst I know that our history books are plagued with inacuracies and in many cases blatant lies, this is all we have to go by until someone 'furnishes' evience to the contrary. It is you that is refuting our history so my friend it is you that must come up with the proof. I do agree with you in so many ways when you raise the red flags mate, I do, but neither you nor I have the proof, we just have the theory.

I agree that the US is NOT the goody two shoes that everyone would like to believe, but it is definately NOT the only ogre either. Most of the freedoms YOU and I enjoy can be directly attributed to the intervention of countries that cherish freedoms like the US. No country is guilt free and I would state that most of the issues the world is confronted with that stem from theses countries is often a repercusion of errors made by that country. So let us not pretend that the West is this power hungry ogre trying to somehow kill off the poor muslim/arabs/jewish etc etc.. there are NO goody two shoes anywhere, everyones hands has blood on them Phaeton, everyones.

Phaeton, I like you to mate and there is nothing wrong with a disagreement, don't take what I say personally, I do not mean to offend. At the end of the day we can all have our opinions and whilst they are to be proved they are all as valid. I think we are reading from the same song sheet mate.

[Perronick Profile]

The US being in some of these countries (eg Afganistan) is NOT there as an invader (as you would like to believe), they are actually there because they have either been asked to be there by the Afganistan government, or they have negotiated a reason to be there with the same government. Now, it obviously suits the Afganistan government for the US and the west to be there or they would simply tell them to leave. The repercusions of the US and the west leaving would need to be weighed up (which I am certain there would be ramificatons etc).

I understand that you like to believe that people are always victimised and somehow you have all the answers, but the reailities in this world are far greater than what you or I will evr likely understand.

So US & Pals did not invade Afganistan? Iraq? Lybia? did not overthrow Governments all over the world to install puppets and satraps?

The Government of Afganistan asked them to go there?

One might ask, who put that Govn't there? Wasn't it the US and NATO?

and those puppets are the ones supposed to ask the US and NATO to leave ...

...ok

[Phaeton Profile]

Paeton, I did not say that the 'invaders' of any given country would simply leave if asked to, you have a habbit of taking peoples words and turning them to try and suit your argument.

Come on man, you said the following, and I quote:
" If the US is in Afganistan or anywhere else in the world it is purely because (for whatever reason) that the government of that country allows it. They can always say.. Go Home Please.. I am certain that other countries like Russia and China would see that a withdrawl is enacted."

So please, dont try and paint me as a twister of your words dude.. Not nice, not becoming. At all.
And if you didnt mean that, my interpretation is because of your formulation, NOT because I desire to twist your words in my advantage. Your implication angers me. Straightup.

The US being in some of these countries (eg Afganistan) is NOT there as an invader (as you would like to believe), they are actually there because they have either been asked to be there by the Afganistan government, or they have negotiated a reason to be there with the same government. Now, it obviously suits the Afganistan government for the US and the west to be there or they would simply tell them to leave. The repercusions of the US and the west leaving would need to be weighed up (which I am certain there would be ramificatons etc).


Oh please dude. Thats why I called you naive. You really think the US invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, purely because they were asked to?!!! Wake the F up and smell the coffee my man, really.

I understand that you like to believe that people are always victimised and somehow you have all the answers, but the reailities in this world are far greater than what you or I will evr likely understand.

'You understand' huh.. 'Always..' 'All...' What do you know of what 'I understand'? I never stated I have all the answers. I really dont care for the tone you chose to wield here. And yes, civilians are being played by their or others' governments, especially in those regions.

The 'point of refutement' from me comes from a more reliable source than you can ever conjure up with your imagination.. history books. Now, whilst I know that our history books are plagued with inacuracies and in many cases blatant lies, this is all we have to go by until someone 'furnishes' evience to the contrary. It is you that is refuting our history so my friend it is you that must come up with the proof. I do agree with you in so many ways when you raise the red flags mate, I do, but neither you nor I have the proof, we just have the theory.

Conjure up with my imagination? I think our discussion needs to end here before it goes awry. You are communicating in a respectless way here, I dont want to play that little game. You just keep reading your 'history books' guy, have fun. Ill stay with unbiased investigative journalism and simple logic.

I agree that the US is NOT the goody two shoes that everyone would like to believe, but it is definately NOT the only ogre either. Most of the freedoms YOU and I enjoy can be directly attributed to the intervention of countries that cherish freedoms like the US. No country is guilt free and I would state that most of the issues the world is confronted with that stem from theses countries is often a repercusion of errors made by that country. So let us not pretend that the West is this power hungry ogre trying to somehow kill off the poor muslim/arabs/jewish etc etc.. there are NO goody two shoes anywhere, everyones hands has blood on them Phaeton, everyones.

I never stated the US was the 'only ogre'. So your point here is misleading and has no baering on anything I stated. Talk about 'taking peoples words and turning them to try and suit your argument'.
Jesus. And I cant believe you just said the US 'cherishes freedoms'. You are so disconnected from reality it isnt funny anymore. You do know 'the US' is robbing their OWN citizens of just that, dont you? No, you obviously dont. Maybe you should read some more history books my friend. OMG. I ALSO did not state there are countries who do not have blood on their hands, another fallacy youre trying to shove in my shoes. But the West IS a power hungry set of political entities. It isnt trying to kill off poor Muslims/Arabs/Jews - which I ALSO did not state. What I did state is that the West, mainly the US, is using these countries to their own political advantage. Geo strategically, military and resource wise. You bet your bottom dollar.

Phaeton, I like you to mate and there is nothing wrong with a disagreement, don't take what I say personally, I do not mean to offend. At the end of the day we can all have our opinions and whilst they are to be proved they are all as valid. I think we are reading from the same song sheet mate.

Not meant to offend? Well you could have fooled me. And the level of liking is diminishing by every post you produce. And thats purely because how you formulate your words. Time will tell whom of us are the least incorrect.