What do the Dead Sea Scrolls say about Jesus?...

[Mediasorcerer Profile]

forum members=1
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[Constabul Profile]

Primarily, here is a article Truth, that you may find interesting. It deals with the dead sea scrolls, and how "some" are starting to find some level of evidence that the Essenes never really existed.
Scholar Claims Dead Sea Scrolls 'Authors' Never Existed
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 21,00.html
and another longer article
Religion: Out of the Desert
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... -1,00.html


But as to the post in general, Threw material I've come across, and opinions i have on the subjects.

The dead sea scrolls really do not prove anything, they do not even mention jesus,( as the OP mentions) or his apostles even tho the cult existed before, during, and after the "time" of jesus..
With writings between 150 BC thru 70 AD. Some believe up till 90ish AD.

A little strange that the biggest event to hit the religion, dealing with prophecy, is not included in these so called prophetic texts..
But really it isn't strange since the jews never acknowledged jesus as the messiah or a prophet. Is all history for a particular people and region, but history none the less.

It is hard to understand how a body of work that came after the original (Torah) would constitute proof. I am not sure how this verifies anything. The copper scroll from what i understand is a bank roll, basically, a guide to places where money and other items of value were hidden, Odd considering, the sect had sworn a oath to poverty by most written accounts of the group.
The Torah was passed down by scribes. If we have 10 copies, and then find one more making it 11, how then does number 11 prove the other 10?

We have multiple copies of Homers works, from the 8th century BCE that have lasted for 1000s of years.
Literary cohesion is not a mark of validity of truth. It only means words were written, and copied.

What one can do tho is find how the Torah first came into being. That four literary sources were blended, Likely 3 first then the priestly segment added theirs later, making it four. Sources for the first 5 books of the torah, and the rest was fill in the blanks as the monotheistic movement of king Hezekiah happened around the end of 700bce, and moved forward.
Which at his time, they removed all the pantheon worship of the old Semitic sects, unifying the belief under one god, that was the blending of up to 3 or 4 of the Semitic deities.
Good un bias Documentary on this :


They assimilated the older beliefs to form a new one, with old underlying familiarities, to make it more platible.
Good book on this, The Bible Unearthed by Neil Asher Silberman and Israel Finkelstein

Much as the romans did with the new testament. linking it to the torah, which gave it a older "ancient" appeal.

As the muslims do with Abraham. This is a vary common, vary old motif.

[Opair01 Profile]

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!...per se

In actuality they prove that the Bible has never been altered and 99.8% identical to the OT texts good ol' King James put in his hip hop compilation. But what I have recently learned is quite astounding! The Dead Sea scrolls were put together and hidden buy a group of 'radicals' near Qumran. I say radical because their view of Judaism would make a Pharisee beg for forgiveness. They were ultra-orthodox. But here is the amazing part!: they basically wrote commentaries on the OT Hebrew scrolls quite similar to what our Christian Tribulationists do today attempting to analyze and interpret the Last Days passages of Revelation. Except in the case of the Dead Sea scrolls they were awaiting the promised Messiah and scouring their books of the OT for the prophecies attempting predict and recognize the coming Messiah. And here is where it gets interesting!

Unlike the religious leaders of Jerusalem who scoffed at Jesus' claims that He was the Son of God, those in Qumran expected the Messiah to be called "Son of the Most High" (sorry Muslims)


Dead Sea scroll designation 4Q246:
. [...] he will rule over the land

8. [...] will do and all will serve

9. [... gr]eat will be called and he will be designated by his name.

Col II

1. He will be called the Son of God, and they will call him the Son of the Most High like a shooting star.

2. that you saw, so will be thier kingdom, they will rule several years over

3. the earth and crush everything, a people will crush another people and nation (will crush) nation.

4. Blank (space left balnk in the manuscript) Until the people of God arises and makes everyone rest from warfare.

5. Their kingdom will be an eteranl kingdom, and their paths will be righteous. They will judge

6. the earth with truth, and all (nations) will make peace. The warfare will cease from the land,

7. and all (nations) will worship him. The great God will be their help,

8. He Himself will fight for them, putting peoples into their power, all of them

9. He will cast them away before him, His dominion will be an everlasting dominion and all the abysses

Now remember this was written long before Jesus began His ministry and even before the so called son of god cults arose around the caesers.



Funny thing is they expected 'two' messiahs--not quite clear on the details, but they expected a Priest and aKing! Could they have unknowingly expected the two comings of Jesus Christ!!! First as the High Priest that takes away the sins of the world, Second as the Conquering King Who shall rule all nations?

You may not believe any of it, but given the Bible's unrivaled ability to predict the future, and now It's validation through the discovery of texts identical to the ones we already had, it seems that God WAS able to preserve His word for all generations and His Word spoke of ONE thing: the Coming of the King and His redemption of mankind and eventual return to rule His creation! It's quite mindblowing!

Upload to Disclose.tv

The Dead Sea Scrolls are basically the missing puzzle piece between Judaism and Christianity! And they will probably play a huge part in the eventual redemption of the Jewish people as time winds down to His return!

This conundrum seems to go round, endless vicious cycles and yet it still give hopes to people.

If Red Sea Scrolls are used to confirm the validity of bible what then should be used to confirm the validity of the Red Sea Scrolls.

[Nothingmatters Profile]

Yeah great lets all return to the dark ages and put the church back into power just like the most enlightened times in our history. Why has this forum turned into a bible bashing forum ? wtf has this got to do with 9/11 or Ufos' ? Isnt their a bloody Christian forum you can go spunk over ?

[Truthdefender Profile]

i thought it said he had a wife? namely mary ?the one the church labelled as a prostitute,of course,they didnt alter any scripture tho did they,haha

Fact: The Gospel of Thomas is late, not early; secondary, not authentic. Contrary to what a few scholars maintain, the Gospel of Thomas originated in Syria and probably no earlier than the end of the second century.


FABRICATING JESUS
The Gospel of Peter, which describes a talking cross, is late and incredible. In fact, the fragmentary document that we have may not be the Gospel of Peter at all. The document that we have may date to the fourth or fifth century.

The "secret" version of the Gospel of Mark, allegedly found in the Mar Saba Monastery, is a modern hoax. Analysis of the hand-writing betrays the tell-tale signs of forgery.

The distinctive conclusions of the Jesus Seminar are rejected by most scholars in North America and Europe.

There is absolutely no credible evidence that Jesus had a wife or a child.

The evidence is compelling that the New Testament Gospels--Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John--are our best sources for understanding the historical Jesus. The New Testament Gospels are based on eyewitness testimony and truthfully and accurately describe the teaching, life, and death of Jesus.
http://www.craigaevans.com/



Your accusations are quite easy to research--if you actually want the Truth, and not to continue believing in bad info and outright lies. And by the way, we are talking about the Dead Sea scrolls--not the Gnostic gospels.

[Flecktarn Profile]

What do the Dead Sea Scrolls say about Jesus?...

good at magic
likes a drink
pissed off the romans

[Truthdefender Profile]

Primarily, here is a article Truth, that you may find interesting. It deals with the dead sea scrolls, and how "some" are starting to find some level of evidence that the Essenes never really existed.
Scholar Claims Dead Sea Scrolls 'Authors' Never Existed
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 21,00.html
and another longer article
Religion: Out of the Desert
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... -1,00.html


But as to the post in general, Threw material I've come across, and opinions i have on the subjects.

The dead sea scrolls really do not prove anything, they do not even mention jesus,( as the OP mentions) or his apostles even tho the cult existed before, during, and after the "time" of jesus..
With writings between 150 BC thru 70 AD. Some believe up till 90ish AD.

A little strange that the biggest event to hit the religion, dealing with prophecy, is not included in these so called prophetic texts..
But really it isn't strange since the jews never acknowledged jesus as the messiah or a prophet. Is all history for a particular people and region, but history none the less.

It is hard to understand how a body of work that came after the original (Torah) would constitute proof. I am not sure how this verifies anything. The copper scroll from what i understand is a bank roll, basically, a guide to places where money and other items of value were hidden, Odd considering, the sect had sworn a oath to poverty by most written accounts of the group.
The Torah was passed down by scribes. If we have 10 copies, and then find one more making it 11, how then does number 11 prove the other 10?

We have multiple copies of Homers works, from the 8th century BCE that have lasted for 1000s of years.
Literary cohesion is not a mark of validity of truth. It only means words were written, and copied.

What one can do tho is find how the Torah first came into being. That four literary sources were blended, Likely 3 first then the priestly segment added theirs later, making it four. Sources for the first 5 books of the torah, and the rest was fill in the blanks as the monotheistic movement of king Hezekiah happened around the end of 700bce, and moved forward.
Which at his time, they removed all the pantheon worship of the old Semitic sects, unifying the belief under one god, that was the blending of up to 3 or 4 of the Semitic deities.
Good un bias Documentary on this :


They assimilated the older beliefs to form a new one, with old underlying familiarities, to make it more platible.
Good book on this, The Bible Unearthed by Neil Asher Silberman and Israel Finkelstein

Much as the romans did with the new testament. linking it to the torah, which gave it a older "ancient" appeal.

As the muslims do with Abraham. This is a vary common, vary old motif.

The underlined statement is the sole purpose of this thread! People on here are constantly stating in their ignorance that the Bible books were changed, yet what do we find in the Scroll? Damn near identical to the Masoretic text from the 10th century AD. So we can guarantee that it was copied correctly for at least 12 centuries. So there is one preconceived notion blown out of the water. 2nd, yup I do believe the Bible, when all of the scholarly debunkers attack they just can't seem to get around the archaeology or the prophetic accuracy contained within it's pages.

The first article was quite interesting const, but the Scrolls exist and it's what is in their pages that is our topic here. And come on, one man says something and people take it as truth! This is a prime example of what is wrong with the minds of most on this forum! Dan Brown said this so all other people are wrong! David Icke said blah, blah, blah. Jordan Maxwell says:

See what I'm saying?
Thanks for the comments.

[Constabul Profile]

The underlined statement is the sole purpose of this thread! People on here are constantly stating in their ignorance that the Bible books were changed, yet what do we find in the Scroll? Damn near identical to the Masoretic text from the 10th century AD. So we can guarantee that it was copied correctly for at least 12 centuries. So there is one preconceived notion blown out of the water. 2nd, yup I do believe the Bible, when all of the scholarly debunkers attack they just can't seem to get around the archaeology or the prophetic accuracy contained within it's pages.

The first article was quite interesting const, but the Scrolls exist and it's what is in their pages that is our topic here. And come on, one man says something and people take it as truth! This is a prime example of what is wrong with the minds of most on this forum! Dan Brown said this so all other people are wrong! David Icke said blah, blah, blah. Jordan Maxwell says:

See what I'm saying?
Thanks for the comments.

There were many changes between the earliest accounted texts, around 1000 bce, to late 8th century bce. Till the additions of the last books of the torah.
The dead sea scrolls speak nothing of the new Testament. Which were cherry picked by the Council of Nicaea, some four hundred years after the events.

I not posting to Pew Pew you, just to provide information on the subjects your referring to.
Really man if ye get a few, watch that video i posted, " Who Wrote The Bible"
It goes over the old and new testament. Where they came from, and Who contributed to it.
It's not a atheist based, christian bashing video, it is done by a guy who holds a doctorate in theology and is a religious fellow himself.
And talks about what you are writing about here. It would also be good for ppl who bash it, because it also iterates that they are missing the point of the texts.

anyway man, hope you take a few and give it a run threw. You may, or may not agree with some of it, but really what is the point in life to travel threw it with blinders on. ( that is a two way street statment btw )

[Iamthatiam Profile]

What do the Dead Sea Scrolls say about Jesus?...

Why dont you ask Jesus himself about it?

[Greatjoy Profile]

What do the Dead Sea Scrolls say about Jesus?...

good at magic
likes a drink
pissed off the romans

My kind of Messiah...bring him on!