What We're Led To Believe And What The Bible Actually Says

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PostWed Nov 04, 2009 1:01 am » by jetxvii

for sure man, I can identify with that. just look at the extreme cases.

People will hate certain groups or general things in life they will incorporate there hate with there beliefs and say GOD HATES YOU.

Example one of my Uncles was a feminine kind of guy, and my grand parents didn't like gays and said it was a sin. then my uncle came out of the closet and the story changed. it is just lack of experience and disruption from true teachings? I can agree with that.

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PostWed Nov 04, 2009 4:27 am » by Heelerdog

Does Jesus, in Mark 4:10-12, appoint certain people to hell?



No, Jesus does not appoint anyone to hell; free will is inviolate such that there is no predestination. But a cursory reading of this text seems to suggest otherwise:

[10] And when he was alone, those who were about him with the twelve asked him concerning the parables.
[11] And he said to them, To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables;
[12] so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand; lest they should turn again, and be forgiven.

Yes, it seems that Jesus is deliberately speaking in parables to prevent certain parties from understanding, believing, repenting and being forgiven. This is not the case, and the truth comes to light only when we see the more complete record of this utterance as Matthew has preserved it. This is a prime example that demonstrates the need of having more than one gospel. It takes all of them to make the story complete because any one of them is incomplete. The Truth should quickly come to light when we set the parallel texts of both Matthew and Luke in parallel columns.


[10] Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?"
[11] And he answered them, To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
[12] For to him who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
[13] This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

[14] With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says: `You shall indeed hear but never understand,
and you shall indeed see but never perceive.
[15] For this people's heart has grown dull,
and their ears are heavy of hearing,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should perceive with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their heart,
and turn for me to heal them.' Mark.4

[10] And when he was alone, those who were about him with the twelve asked him concerning the parables.
[11] And he said to them, To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God,
but for those outside everything is in parables;

[12] so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand; lest they should turn again, and be forgiven.


We need to go to Matthew to get the full story. There, we discover that Jesus is working from Isaiah 6:9-10, and that the subjects are this people, the people of Israel who refuse to see the Light or to hear the Word. Reading Matthew 19:10-15 should settle this. Verse 15 tells us that it is directed specifically to this people. Further, we see that their eyes they have closed. The Father has not closed their eyes. It is the people who have closed their eyes of their own free will. Accepting this characterization of this people Jesus spoke to them in parables knowing that they would not hear. The parables served as a sort of filter, for some of the people did hear -- his disciples -- of whom he continued to say:


[16] But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.
[17] Truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

Although there were times when his disciples challenged the Lord's confidence in them:

[16] And he said, Are you also still without understanding?

You will observe that these words (Matt. 15:16) were spoken in a similar context, where he has quoted Isaiah 29:13,14. Yes, if one reads only Mark's version, predestination is suggested. But when one goes to Matthew and Isaiah, things come to Light.

The word lest in Mark 4:12 is rendered from the Greek mapote, which is difficult to put in our language. As shown here, lest indicates motive, something that Jesus was doing to keep them from hearing and seeing so that they would turn and be forgiven. Matthew and Isaiah clarify this point and explain that Jesus spoke to them in parables because "this people" having closed their eyes, would not be able to understand. It was his way of not casting his pearls before swine. Matthew 13:12 combined with the Parable of the Pounds (or the talents) provides even more light.

[11] As they heard these things, he proceeded to tell a parable, because he was near to Jerusalem, and because they supposed that the kingdom of God was to appear immediately.
[12] He said therefore, A nobleman went into a far country to receive a kingdom and then return.
[13] Calling ten of his servants, he gave them ten pounds, and said to them, `Trade with these till I come.'
[14] But his citizens hated him and sent an embassy after him, saying, `We do not want this man to reign over us.'
[15] When he returned, having received the kingdom, he commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know what they had gained by trading.
[16] The first came before him, saying, `Lord, your pound has made ten pounds more.'
[17] And he said to him, `Well done, good servant! Because you have been faithful in a very little, you shall have authority over ten cities.'
[18] And the second came, saying, `Lord, your pound has made five pounds.'
[19] And he said to him, `And you are to be over five cities.'
[20] Then another came, saying, `Lord, here is your pound, which I kept laid away in a napkin;
[21] for I was afraid of you, because you are a severe man; you take up what you did not lay down, and reap what you did not sow.'
[22] He said to him, `I will condemn you out of your own mouth, you wicked servant! You knew that I was a severe man, taking up what I did not lay down and reaping what I did not sow?
[23] Why then did you not put my money into the bank, and at my coming I should have collected it with interest?'
[24] And he said to those who stood by, `Take the pound from him, and give it to him who has the ten pounds.'
[25] (And they said to him, `Lord, he has ten pounds!')
[26] `I tell you, that to every one who has will more be given; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
[27] But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me.'
It is all about Israel, about a collection of people who had, of their own free will, closed their minds to Truth. It was for reasons of their own doing that the kingdom was not given to them.


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PostWed Nov 04, 2009 4:56 am » by Spock

I'm going to take out all the smurf shit and get this back to the subject.
Around conservatives I sound like a liberal, and around liberals I sound like a conservative.

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PostWed Nov 04, 2009 5:04 am » by Cryptillian

spock wrote:I'm going to take out all the smurf shit and get this back to the subject.

even an all powerful Vulcan can never stop the nefarious intentions of other webcitizens...right spocky.

the fact that i care not to even mask my IP show how many shits i actually give about these readers opinions of me......

or maybe i should rush and change my avatar because some dipshit named sawly thinks he is fugly. haha

who really is sawlty....what does he do for a living......does he believe in reptilians...who fucking cares...

this is a site for paranormal speculation....that is it

the fact that all your friends play here is irrelevant to me

you can never stop the bullshit

just lay back, close your eyes and let it happen bitch....or ban me :D
Yahweh is the moon .....setting on a fallen sun

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PostWed Nov 04, 2009 5:06 am » by Spock

Sawlty - are you asking me to lock this thread because you wish to continue this bullshit?

Are you not wishing that the topic be discussed because you would rather take it in another direction?
Around conservatives I sound like a liberal, and around liberals I sound like a conservative.

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PostWed Nov 04, 2009 5:33 am » by jetxvii

well anyone that has been around a few days would see that I actually changed it a few days ago, that was my Halloween costume. and pretending and play time is over something that your Uncle festers retarded brother look a like ass doesn't get. you are one ugly dude salty inside but mostly out side... you face upsets me by how ugly your real picture is.

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PostWed Nov 04, 2009 5:59 am » by Naturaldefense

What a good post, thank you for bringing up the most common way that man separates himself from God. How sad that we are often mislead and look no farther. It is time to change and question what we were taught. I found these following scripture very eye opening as my search for the truth continues. In the book of Romans, Paul tell us in Chapter 1:21-32 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more that the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient: 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity, whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, dispiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents. 31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.[/size]

It is so important to study and learn how God adds us to his kingdom. I attend worship with a group of people whose goal is the restoration of the church Jesus established through his death. I just learned tonight in a bible study that when Jesus returns for the 2nd time to earth that he is coming for those added to his kingdom through obedience and following Jesus. We need to prepare and not be caught unaware. Worldly cares choke many people and distract from the spiritual truths in the bible. This life is about learning about God, and learning how to follow the commands of Jesus so we also will be recognized and accepted into the completed kingdom on judgment day.

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PostWed Nov 04, 2009 8:05 am » by Dirttyrabbit

wow what the heck is going on...
whos cryptillian?

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PostWed Nov 04, 2009 8:50 am » by jetxvii

dirttyrabbit wrote:wow what the heck is going on...
whos cryptillian?

Cryptilian is a homo sexual cross dresser named Salty-dawg who was a previous member here. as you can tell by my description you can see he is one ugly Mofo. he pretended to be a girl and flirts with the fellow dudes on here. then he turned into a psycho ( even more so) and lashed out on Lucid. told me to shoot myself in the face...blah...blah....

and now it seems he is back with a Fester vengeance , trying to spark light bulbs where ever he goes just to get a reaction. he is one sick and sadistic motherfucker who obviously has no life, or yells at rats on his spare time...

if you research a little bit you will find some salty dawg threads but you can see the ones where he flipped his lid.

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PostWed Nov 04, 2009 8:55 am » by Willburnroach

This is another good topic

Jesus was sent here to be the way our direct link to God, so it would be wise to listen to what he preached if this is your chosen path.

Four hundred years after Christ the church thought it was a good idea to start preaching a lil thing called the trinity. Always remember no matter how many verses you wanna quote from the bible this was NOT taught by the son of God, and it goes against monotheism. There are tons of verses that seem to support this doctrine of man and just as many where Christ himself speaks of the separation of God, Jesus and the holy spirit. This IMO was one of the first corruption of Christianity making Christianity more popular with the pagans that still made up half the Roman Empire. The law of 3 the mother the crone and don't remember the last one was the top of the paganism belief system.

Another widely held belief in Christianity is the rapture, it is a corner stone in modern Christianity especially in the fundamentalism and evangelical movements. If this were so important you would have thought that Jesus would have mentioned this, but he did Not. Its pure Darbyism and yet another doctrine of man, added to this belief system over a thousand years after Christ.

And the perverse prosperity teaching going on in today's church is just sick and demented if you know anything about Christ.


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