When they come for your guns, it won't be the left.

[Middleman Profile]

I wanted to title this thread "The John Howard Appreciation Society", but I figured that would confuse the non Ausfags...and induce vomitting in my good self.

John Howard is the most conservative Prime Minister Australia has seen since the 1960s. Good mates with Bush and Blair, up to his eyeballs in Iraq and Afghanistan...yet here he is writing an Op-ed in the New York Times about how he successfully removed semi automatic weapons from Australian society, and the positive affect this has had on suicide rates and mass killings since then.

Personally, I think it's just about the only good thing he did in 13 years of government, but all the Aussies on DTV seem to love the bloke.

No labor politician could ever have pulled it off, and I doubt many of his coalition peers before or since could either. As he says in the piece, there was a political price to pay.

It's a "Nixon goes to China" deal. The only way it happens is when somebody with absolutely unquestioned conservative credentials can carry the bad news to their natural constituency.

So don't worry about Obama. No matter how hard he tries, he'll never convince the people he needs to deliver (Senate blue dogs) for any reform that goes beyond background checks. Worry about Rubio, or a coalition of Republican governors like Jindal, Brewer, Mitch Daniels, and Nikki Haley.

That's when you'll really know it's on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/opini ... html?_r=2&

[mykingdomforthetruth Profile]

making it hard for people to commit suicide actually detroments society.. i know many many wankers that drain resources and cause misery to others on a daily basis that have tried to kill themselves and failed only to live on and cause more of the same .

if we had weapons they would all be dead either shot breaking into someones home or killed themselves sooner wallowing in self pity.

i only know of 3 that have actually managed to commit suicide 2 hung themselves another gassed himself in his car and 1 more that wasn't a suicide it was an accident a rather funny 1 too and special to me because this particular guy actually tried to stab me once upon a time he allso robbed a friend of mine by making draw his money out of a cash machine at knifepoint on more than 1 occasion anyway he got so drunk he passed out outside of his flat it was a particularly cold night and jack frost got the motherfucker .. so you see the world is a better place without these cunts but there are so so many more to go . that fuckhead thinks it's a great idea to save lives by nannying everyone well he couldn't be more wrong.

[Iwanci Profile]

What I am about to say will (for some) be controversial...


Middleman - Howard WAS (not IS) one of Australia's best prime ministers.. but lefties cant admit that because they prefer getting the wool pulled over their eyes by liars (juliars to be precise)... Howard simply did what the majority of the people here in Australia wanted him to do, otherwise it would not have gotten the support through parliament. I too doubt that any labor government could pull it off, as a matter of FACT they fail at pulling anything off, aside from pulling the wool over peoples eyes.

I do agree totally that there will be a change in the US when it comes to gun laws, and you are probably right about it coming from the least expected place.

Mykingdom - what an absurd statement to make about people who suicide. Do you think that everyone who suicides is a burden on society? You sure about that mate? Better tell the parents of all those teenagers who comit suicide that their kids were a blight on society. WTF are you thinking mate, you obviously have had some bad experiences but to generalise like this? You are better than that...

[mykingdomforthetruth Profile]

a few teenage suicides and the odd mass killing is a small price to pay for a well protected society all good people should have the right to defend themselves and their peers with deadly force.

an un protected society is a vulnerable society and a vulnerable society will eventually see a 78% tottal tax rate on their income to pay for the crime commited by their fellow humans ... out of everyone i know i can honestly say and count on 1 hand the total amount of people that are actually descent human beings

EDIT: And i would hate to see what happend to britian happen to america !

[Iwanci Profile]

Not argueing that point mykindom, am suggesting that your previous post concerning suicides being a good thing fails miserably in logic.

Also, a few teenage suicides and the 'odd' mass killing is a small price to pay???

what exactly are you considering protecting your family from if you cannot prevent and protect against these two scenarios' I wonder? The 'odd' home burglary where someone tries to steal a possession as opposed to taking a life?

Time to check priorities me thinks...

The social issues that cause people to revert to extreme actions are many, varied and at times incomprehensible unless the issue effects you.

Making statements that see the sacrifice of the 'some' for the protection of the 'other' is as tainted and corrupt as that which we chastise our governments for doing.

The right to keep you guns is one issue, suicide and mass murder (although in many cases utilising the 'gun') is a different issue, at any rate, if anything it allows the building of a solid case against guns not for guns...

Here in Australia we have stringent gun laws, most suicides are not carried out with a gun... people in desparate times find a way. We haven't had a mass murder involving a gun since the gun laws were tightened... so both your points lead nowhere.

Not sure what exactly you have experienced but please do not trivialise teenage suicide, it is indeed a very sad and tragic topic, and it does not belong in the gun debate.

[Flipper Profile]

In Australia people have been known to shoot themselves 3 times in the back of the head with a bolt action rifle and its called suicide. Funny when they have been known to have evidence to implicate a member or two of federal Parliament. We are such a gifted type of people.

[Middleman Profile]

I'm not aware of that case, Flipper. Can you please elaborate?

[mykingdomforthetruth Profile]

Not argueing that point mykindom, am suggesting that your previous post concerning suicides being a good thing fails miserably in logic.

suicides are a good thing we have a huge herd of evil barstards that at some point tried to take their own lives i just want to make it easy for them

Also, a few teenage suicides and the 'odd' mass killing is a small price to pay???

Yes it is teenage suicide= irresponsible gun owner let their emo teenager get to their gun no parent wants to let that happen twice and 'odd mass killing' psycho's need to be shot nearly every mass killing has happened in a place where no one else has a weapon to defend themselves with otherwise the headlines would be psychopath fires into crowd kills 1 or 2 but then gets shot by legal gun owner 'and there was much rejoicing' instead we hear mass killing ban guns ban guns blah blah fucking blah

what exactly are you considering protecting your family from if you cannot prevent and protect against these two scenarios' I wonder? The 'odd' home burglary where someone tries to steal a possession as opposed to taking a life?

Come live where i live i've been burgled several times and they have never been caught yet and if i had a weapon i would have shot them dead instead of trying to take them on with a fucking chair leg i once had a guy try to rob my place of buisness with a machette in broad daylight i would have shot him dead too had i had a weapon instead i had to try and fight him off with my bare hands and i nearly got chopped up you see we have 3 generations of scum in england now and more to come at what point will our government allow us to defend ourselves the answer is never the truth is simple our government doesn't give a flying fuck about our people all they care about are their own gated lives protected by machine guns the rest of us are cattle and no one cares what cattle do they are just beef to some and milk to others in our case it's milk 78% milk to be exact no guns no change thats the real deal

Time to check priorities me thinks... check!

The social issues that cause people to revert to extreme actions are many, varied and at times incomprehensible unless the issue effects you.

Making statements that see the sacrifice of the 'some' for the protection of the 'other' is as tainted and corrupt as that which we chastise our governments for doing.

The right to keep you guns is one issue, suicide and mass murder (although in many cases utilising the 'gun') is a different issue, at any rate, if anything it allows the building of a solid case against guns not for guns...

Here in Australia we have stringent gun laws, most suicides are not carried out with a gun... people in desparate times find a way. We haven't had a mass murder involving a gun since the gun laws were tightened... so both your points lead nowhere.

buy a police scanner and see how many people are killing other people by other means such as knives my point is valid and it's simply this 'bad people need to executed' be it by law or by the hand of the victim someone has to wipe them out before they wipe us out

Not sure what exactly you have experienced but please do not trivialise teenage suicide, it is indeed a very sad and tragic topic, and it does not belong in the gun debate.

focus on the cause of the teenage suicide not the means to carry it out all teenagers do now is attempt to kill themselves by more painful means i know of 1 teenage suicide my nephews friend threw himself infront of a train and it cut him in half tragic as it was it wasn't the first time he tried to kill himself point is if you dont focus on the cause then you will never stop it 'or should we ban trains too?'

[Iwanci Profile]

mykingdom you are full of contradictory statements..

I WAS saying that we need to focus on the CAUSES of teenage suicides..and guns were not the cause.. that is why I said that the two topics are related but very separate... so not sure where you are going with that one???? I was not going to argue about the gun ownership rules again mate, but how many gun related issues would you have if there were no guns in your society? This is the golden question that no one wants to answer, because the answer if both logical and 100% irrefutable. Imagine living in a world were you don't have to worry about people with guns....


I feel sorry for you being robbed... maybe time to move to a better neighbourhood?? or perhaps start demanding better services from your police? Hold the police accountable... you know there are ways to effect change that do not involve killing people? If enough of you think the same, then vote the politician in who promises to do something about the crime... Imagine if you had a gun and one of the robbers took it off you,,, where would you be? in a much worst place I bet.


I have no doubt that people are killing themselves without guns, no doubt... but neither YOU nor I will ever know when we need to defend ourselves until it is likely too late, ie, the person is infront of us.. by that stage 99% of people wil freeze and not know what to do... besides, if your statement is correct, then you should have zero crime in a country where you can rightfully own a gun to protect yourselves, right? I mean, your argument is that guns disuade criminals from committing a crime correct? It is a well known fact that most americans own guns, so then following that logic crime should not exist becuase all the criminals know that everyone owns a gun so they should be disuaded from committing the crime... and yet the crime stats show the US as having just as bad a problem with crime (if not worst) than most other countries...

I think the issue of crime is again, related, but not directly responsible for crime.. I mean, if no one had guns crimes would still be committed... if everyone has guns, crimes would still be committed.. the means to offend and defend change, but the crime will always exist.

My earlier points however, suicides are NOT related to this topic (although many use guns to kill themselves) but the cause is NOT the gun, there are deeper issues at play with suicides. These are two very different topics.


Come live in Australia and you will have less chance of being burgled...