Where Does It End? WTF???

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PostTue Jun 05, 2012 11:18 am » by One-23


And lets not forget all the plastic cops

Man dies after being detained at Calif. Walmart

Police say a suspected shoplifter died at a Southern California Walmart store after a fight with store security workers who caught him in the parking lot.

Covina police Lt. Holly Francisco says when police arrived Friday they found the suspect restrained by store security and appearing to need medical help. Officers called paramedics and the man was later pronounced dead at a hospital.

Francisco says the suspect had been accused of stealing clothing and body wash.

Wal-Mart Stores spokeswoman Dianna Gee says the security personnel have been suspended pending the outcome of an investigation that will include surveillance video and an autopsy to determine the cause of death. It is not clear why security did not call paramedics.

Source http://news.yahoo.com/man-dies-being-de ... 48670.html
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PostTue Jun 05, 2012 12:29 pm » by Iwanci


Oh yes and let's not forget all the armed services personel (current and ex) who have been trained to kill who seem to 'snap' at some point of their lives... and yes, let's not forget all those postal workers who get fed up and start blowing up their workplace.. oh yes and of course all those men who go home every night and abuse their wives and kids and pets.. oh yes and all the priests who take advantage of their congregation, oh yes and all the bosses who also abuse their employees and bla bla bla bla bla..

My point is simple.... injustice and abuse of power is EVERYWHERE...

Why single out any one occupation and why so surprised? This thread is akin to saying that it is perfectly alright for priests not to have sex.. It is not, a priest is a man and men have needs.

Man is fallible... end of story.

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PostWed Jun 06, 2012 4:20 am » by Seahawk


End of story? I don't think so.

Don't have to say a lot about this one, it's pretty clear.

There are legitimate reasons why people are getting the kind of perceptions about the police, that they are. These kinds of actions are part of the reason.



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PostWed Jun 06, 2012 4:33 am » by Cosmine


Seahawk100 wrote:The police motto,

"To Serve and Protect,"

should be changed to

"To Unnerve and Suspect."


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:twisted:

:cheers:

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PostWed Jun 06, 2012 6:01 am » by Iwanci


The very laws that come into affect are driven by the concerns of the ‘majority’ of the public. Whether false information is being used as a means to an end is irrelevant, the fact remains, most people get what most people want. This is the whole predication of a democracy, you need to do one thing in these debates/arguments, have a balanced view.

To every problem there is a ‘solution’, to date on this thread I have not seen anything that comes close to providing a better option or a remedy to fix the issue with corrupt or power hungry policemen/women. So let’s hear it, put up your new model of what YOU would do to rectify the issues that have been identified, and how these actions would serve for the betterment of mankind, also, you may want to prove that you can do one simple thing with your new model, you must prove that your new model eliminates man’s inbuilt ability to become corrupt and man’s hunger for power.

Do this and I will support it 100%.

There is only one thing in my opinion that will ever alter what we have been speaking about, eliminate police altogether...this will only ever happen when you eliminate the need for police, ie, to enforce the laws that society enacts, and this will only ever happen when society can learn to live without laws, and this will NEVER happen.

So yes there are parts of the system that fails us... but this is true of every part of society. Name ONE part of society that is full proof and has no issues... just one?

End of story..... :alien51:
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PostWed Jun 06, 2012 7:49 am » by Seahawk


Iwanci wrote:
So yes there are parts of the system that fails us... but this is true of every part of society. Name ONE part of society that is full proof and has no issues... just one?

End of story..... :alien51:



The only "issue" that I am concerned with- here- is the kind that can unjustifiably beat my skull in, or taze me to death.

Listen to what she says- in the following video- in the whole interview, but specifically, at 8:02. I whole heartedly agree. I do not want to eliminate the police. I want to keep them honest, as they should be. That is all.

My solution? Is the same as others solution. As she discusses, one thing is that recording police in action
should be legal in all states, and that's a right that we should all fight for.

The required dash-cam has curtailed unjust, and brutal behaviour in certain instances, and has successfully contradicted some of their justifications- in certain cases. It should remain in use, and be legally required in all states. Period.

Recording an officer's actions should NEVER be considered unlawful. It is one "solution," that has a hugely significant impact, and as Jet has pointed out- in a different thread- that is still up to us to protect ourselves, then that one solution could prove a huge benefit in aid to us doing that very thing- protecting ourselves. When policemen protest the use of cameras, then it obviously, understandably, and justifiably compels me to question their morality, honesty, integrity, and intention.

It's too bad that we have gotten to a point where we have to protect ourselves from both the criminals, and the policemen.




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PostWed Jun 06, 2012 9:17 am » by Iwanci


Seahawk it’s not that I entirely disagree with you or the other posters.
Where I have a difference of opinion is where some posters jump on the ‘hate’ band wagon for reasons other than the purpose of the thread. This is as true in everyday society as it is on DTV. Some people will literally hate regardless of any real reason, they simply agree without any thought. This for me is a scarier prospect than the thread itself.

Do I want to keep policemen honest? YES, absolutely. Do I think that this is possible? Yes but not entirely. Why? For the simple reason that dishonesty finds a way to manipulate the system, this is why it is called dishonesty. The problem with corrupt police is that they are corrupt regardless of dash cams etc. If they wanted to beat down on someone do you really believe they would do it in front of a camera? I am certain that some have been caught, but imagine the many who would simply ensure the cam is obstructed or that they inflict the beating off camera, behind the car for example, down a laneway, inside the apartment, in the police cell etc. Does this solve the problem? No, it just hides it.

I for one believe that if we start placing cameras everywhere for the sake of accountability (which by the way is a fair enough reason), then from this will stem other issues. If it is ok for us to monitor the actions of policemen, then why couldn’t an employer state the same ‘honesty’ argument to monitor the employees? Or why can’t a school teacher use the same for the students? There will be a time when our liberties have withered away to nothing, the erosion of liberties through time does not occur in an instant, rather, like rust it starts as a small spot and then infests everything. If we are not careful we will look back one day and think ‘how did this happen’.
For example, here in Australia we have speed cameras, red light cameras, all acceptable for the prevention of accidents right? There is now talk that we will soon have cameras that see through the car to look if a driver is using a mobile phone, a noble intent with very bad privacy implications. You will be monitored regardless of whether you are using a phone or not, and guess who’s watching? Another person... open for abuse? YES.

In as much as I cannot stand the thought or corruption in any part of society (the thought of corruption in the people who are sworn to protect us is by far worst in my opinion) the logical progression of the tools deployed to help monitor these transgressors eventually make it a lot worst for most people in society, what starts off as a good idea ends up with potentially more abuse and/or protest in the future.

Through history we have developed laws to deal with crime at every level, the laws have been altered through time to keep up with the crime, we have had harsh sentencing, death penalties, rehabilitation mechanisms etc etc etc.. guess what? We still have crime. Can it be done better with regards to the corrupt police? Yes, everything can be improved. Will anything that any poster has mentioned resolve the issues? Nope, my opinion is it will have zero effect and long term create more problems than it solves. The system we have is not perfect, but it works to an extent, it can be improved, but it will never be perfect.

The argument about ‘self protection’ falls way short my friend. If you for example cause me a grievance, this gives me the right to reciprocate, which then gives you the same right and so on. The principle of ‘self protection’ is somewhat captured in our laws under the notion of ‘self defence’. We must also remember another often forgotten aspect, policemen are men and are privy to the same rights as anyone else, privacy rights, self protection rights etc.

Cheers mate, great topic huh... don’t disagree with you btw, just don’t entirely believe that any changes will have any major impact, they may serve to hide the corruption further so we may never see it, and we may find that the demands we make on our law enforcers will eventually fall back on us in more ways than one, and this would be a lose situation.
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PostWed Jun 06, 2012 9:59 am » by One-23


So here I go with My bashing the police and jumping on the bandwagon, so just as they are!

Mom locked up for cheering at child's graduation


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PostWed Jun 06, 2012 10:21 am » by *WillEase*


Cageyone23 wrote:So here I go with My bashing the police and jumping on the bandwagon, so just as they are!

Mom locked up for cheering at child's graduation


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I understand she was excited for her daughter to graduate, Just like all the other parents who feel the same way as she did, but why couldn't she have followed the rules and waited until the graduation was over to congratulate her child like everyone else? She made a stupid choice not to follow the rules, and suffered the consequences. If you want to be ignorant, and do what you want to, what are you really teaching your'e kid? That regardless of any rules in place, your going to do what you want to. She was wrong.
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PostWed Jun 06, 2012 10:42 am » by One-23


I appreciate she was asked along with everyone else to restrain her emotions but the fact that she and all others where asked to be quiet in the first place is just plain offensive. I know that if I was at my childs graduation, I would want to show how proud I was and be vocal too so everyone was aware of it. The laws are just plain stupid and offensive.
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