Why is the Muslim world so easily offended?

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PostTue Sep 18, 2012 6:53 pm » by Kinninigan


Poooooot wrote:
Lowsix wrote:lol you are the queen of the gifs..i gotta admit..

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:D :cheers:
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I love your gifs! :pray:













:lol:


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PostTue Sep 18, 2012 6:59 pm » by Phaeton


Lowsix wrote:
Phaeton wrote:
99socks wrote:And another thing...

It has little to do with "Islam" and everything to do with sociology and psychology that is affecting all sides. Islam IS the Red Herring; it is fuel for the fire. I don't know how saying that can make me a hypocrite. But whatever.




Nono, you're a hypocrite because you lie through your teeth and know it.


Nothing personal.


Point out the lie for me, please.

Just one...

from ANY of her posts on the issue.
Use the search feature if you have to.



I dont even need to leave this thread to do that Lowsix.

As Low once pointed out... The US saved Muslims in Bosnia. Helped Sunni Kurds in Iraq. Handed over Egypt to the Islamists.... They don't really have that much to bitch about, in that regard.


Saved, helped, handed over..

Nonsense.

All was done in pure personal interest, and Muslims [not the extremist element] were the losers on all accounts.

To state these fallacies, subsequently implying the Muslims should be greatful for it, that they 'hate us for our freedom, our culture' in pure jelousy is.. well.. typical.

And foremost, toxically hypocritical. Evenmore for the fact she knows the Muslims did not gain anything from the three examples she offered. To the absolute and utter contrary.
"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music"
"All our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - yet, in contemporary consensus, its the most precious thing we have"


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PostTue Sep 18, 2012 7:07 pm » by Flecktarn


because the bacon avoiding people have no sense of humour :lol: :lol:
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PostTue Sep 18, 2012 7:29 pm » by Phaeton


99socks wrote:
Phaeton wrote:

Be that as it may, 'fundamentalist Islam' does not equate 'Islam'.

Thats the point.

And I didnt imply the little black box was or is influencing / furthering fundamentalist Islam, I implied the United States was and is. I also implied the little black box was and is influencing the Westerner to look at Islam as 'Evil', Intolerant, backward, demonic.

Now turn that up side down, and youll approach the truth.. Impo.

..Saudi Arabia you say.. Thats Wahabism, as you know. The facilitator of which, the House of Saud's powerbase, was cemented in place with the help of the USA. Its not a fluke that its your greatest allie in the ME.




Read what I said again. I did understand that you meant that the black box was affecting the Western perception. What I pointed out, was that it affects THEM too.

And no matter how much you try to separate "fundamentalists" from the normal average every-day Muslims, the point I was making is that by virtue of "how things work," the normal average every-day Muslims are just plain out of the equation at this point. They were relevant and the argument was valid when fundamentalists made up 1%, but once they are at 15-20%... the argument becomes invalid; the critical mass is almost breached.

Just like you point out all the time that both sides are being played by TPTB, you have to admit also that the same social and psychological forces are affected both sides the same way. I have seen you too easy to defend Muslims against the red herring that both Muslim haters in the West as well as the fundamentalist Muslims themselves are debating about- whether or not Islam teaches intolerance or whatever... blah blah. WHAT Islam teaches is just as irrelevant as WHAT Christianity teaches. We are too far past that. Debating what Islam "really" teaches about anything is completely beside the point. The point is; both sides are being driven by the same primitive social drives of tribalism, survivalism, and US vs THEM. Islam is irrelevant.


First of all, where do you get your statistics? And even if these numbers have a basis in reality, extremism is - for a very considerable part - cultivated by your nation. Your role in Saudi Arabia, your role in Iran, your role in Iraq, your role in Afghanistan, your role in Libya, Syria, Bosnia.. First you cultivate a certain situation, then act shocked and ask yourselves "Why is the Muslim world [note that there is no nuance specifying the difference between fanatical and non fanatical Islam] so easily offended?!"

You can call me a conspiracy nut, America hater, whatever. But in my mind, these conclusions are self evident. I love the USA, love its people, love your constitution, all that. I dont like your political activities, I dont like your corporate capitalism, consumerism and a lot of the stuff you 'export', actively and passively. The nations on the receiving end are just as much to blame though - not in the least my own nation.

Second, I agree with the manipulation on both sides of the fence, I made that abundantly clear.

What you seem to ignore, is the role of certain Western political entities in the creation of this situation, especially the USA.

Lastly, Islam IS relevant, be it only on account of the misconceptions that are promoted through almost every media outlet that has a main position in the Western media landscape, again - especially - those in the US.

Its the pivot point in all these lies, all these illusions that are draped over the Westerners eyes.
If Westerners have more knowledge of what they judge to be 'the enemy', they can fend for themselves instead of falling for the continuous lies all the effing time. We are never past attempts to 'disclose' the truth.

Never.
"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music"
"All our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - yet, in contemporary consensus, its the most precious thing we have"


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PostTue Sep 18, 2012 9:15 pm » by Edgar 2.0


99socks wrote:
As Low once pointed out... The US saved Muslims in Bosnia.


:shock:

That's, well...not exactly true.

And what the word "saved" means in the case of Bosnia and Bosniacs (the preferred term down there...), is also debatable...
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PostTue Sep 18, 2012 9:58 pm » by Spock


Phaeton wrote:
Spock wrote:
Demobe wrote:


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Thanks Demobe, this was refreshing.



This is exactly my sentiment. This is what I keep telling those around me that adhere to the Qur'an.
Yet, Arabs are a proud people. Their sense of honor is baffling, approaching the ridiculous.

The number of Muslims though, that have been acting up on acocunt of the movie, is much much less than one would think given the media coverage.

This, again, underwrites one of my points.

That the media loves to portray Muslims as extremists. That there are no moderate Muslims.

Ive even seen some mods here state just that, 'there is no moderate, or non- extremist rather, Islam'.

Bullshit.



I think we all realize there are Phaeton. Much of the outrage comes from them not separating themselves, vocally from that portion of the ideology.

Why isn't there a massive backlash of people like this guy, out in the streets in protests about their religion being hijacked? I dare say because the hijackers themselves are the ones in power, and like L6 said, those people may not make it that far in life if they did protest.

The anger and venom, comes from us, just like it comes from the people you so adamantly defend. We see people's bodies being pulled through the streets and it outrages us. We see children killed for honor in the name of Islam, and it outrages us. Likewise, when we see the people of Westboro Baptist Church doing their thing, it also outrages us. I don't think Boatman or anyone here that would occasionally say "Nuke Them All" really mean that - it is our reaction of anger. And focusing that anger on those does not mean we can't see the evil's of our own government - but this is more than that, this has become a culture war. I have tried to make it clear in the past that I thought the people of Iran deserved better than what they had for a ruling regime, and I have heard from many sources as well as from news, that the common people of Iran are just as sick of their government and the fanatics that run it as we in western society are of having to wonder what they are going to do next.

It is complicated and there are people that have been in these areas that understand the perception a bit more than us. Socks in one of them.

And, I just ate a a new place for lunch today. Only 2 people work there and it was pretty good. A Mexican place where everything is healthy and all natural; gluten free, nothing is fried, and all fresh made daily. It reminded me of what I would think of a small town (maybe European) family run restaurant. It was no frills, but totally had a nitch as it was all healthy, an exciting little idea for a restaurant and I hope he does well.

Anyway, to make a long story longer; the owner/cashier also took our order and made our food. It was obvious this person was foreign so we asked him about himself, where he was from, etc. BAM! This guy threw us the most amazing story of his life's journey that has landed him here in upstate S.C. and I can not wait to talk with him more.

He served with the NATO troops out of Germany, but the kicker was, he is Iranian. He was born in Iran and lived there until the 1979 revolution at which point he fled, because, he said, he was not Muslim. I can't wait to get his perspective on everything. Seeing as it was my first time there, I wasn't going to pry him on all the issues, but I am anxious to get his position.

Will post what he says when i find out.

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PostTue Sep 18, 2012 10:29 pm » by Phaeton


Why isn't there a massive backlash of people like this guy, out in the streets in protests about their religion being hijacked? I dare say because the hijackers themselves are the ones in power, and like L6 said, those people may not make it that far in life if they did protest.



Why isnt there a massive backlash of US citizens out in the streets in protests about their country being hijacked? I dare say because the hijackers themselves are the ones in power.

There are a lot of reasons, more or less exactly thesame reasons that are in effect in my version.

Life [not having the time, running the rat race of daily life];
Distantiation [not wanting anything to do with it];
Unawareness [not knowing the specifics, either of the Quran or the individual extremist cases];
Disorganisation ['normal' muslims do not have {int. funded} agenda's, and thus are infinitely less organised];

Etc etc.

And ofcourse, the ones who do act against it do not get any mainstream air time, and are demoted to recording their own vdo's on youtube just like the Truthers out there. This is not hot, not 'newsworthy', it 'doesnt sell'. Doesnt portray the version of reality they want to project. You know that.


As I appreciate the respectful tone youve chosen to use in this last comment - which is extremely out of character - and the personal account..

I cant just forget all the bs, infantile games youve been playing the whole friggin time. And I wont.

Ill even go so far that I wont trust you in recounting the story of this Iranian guy honestly.
Or to not manipulate the conversation to your advantage.

But Ill be interested to know nonetheless. Please, dont forget to report when he does.
"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music"
"All our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - yet, in contemporary consensus, its the most precious thing we have"


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PostTue Sep 18, 2012 10:55 pm » by Webcat


I have read this thread with interest and even whilst being a 'newbie' I felt I should make a comment.

I love '99socks' posts, I enjoy 'phaeton' comments and have great respect for the DTV titans of 'Spock' and 'Lowsix' - they all make DTV worth reading.

But I have to err on the side of 'lowsix' with a simple remark he made:

(but she made the dtv mistake of attempting to elaborate on the SOURCE to an audience that really isnt sincere about the issue...just being cute to score points and earn high-fives and such [and yes, i saw you delete that]


That's the problem right there, multiple postings of issues by people who really don't care about the subject except to raise their post value and be seen. I cannot understand that, I joined DTV because I thought I would learn something from people who cared about what they commented on.

If I wanted nothing but self-gratifying bullshit I would have joined CNN, BBC or Fox.

The debates here are sometimes excellent, I can only hope the debators live up to the past of DTV.

DTV is a place to be heard, just make sure what your actually saying is really what you think and wish to be heard, otherwise we may as well be the main stream media.

And we all know what c^*p they are.

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PostTue Sep 18, 2012 11:03 pm » by Phaeton


:lol:


Isnt that ironic.

Thanks for that mr. Jones.
"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music"
"All our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - yet, in contemporary consensus, its the most precious thing we have"


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PostTue Sep 18, 2012 11:08 pm » by Spock


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