Why Time Travel Will Never Work

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PostFri May 07, 2010 7:30 am » by Elnorel


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SKEPTIC - One who instinctively or habitually doubts, questions, disagrees with assertions or generally accepted conclusions.
And tries to prove these assertions/claims with scientific facts.

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PostFri May 07, 2010 8:05 am » by Lighthouse


Clif High agrees with you,
he explains this in a lengthy but interesting article, worth a read if you have time
;)

http://www.halfpasthuman.com/timeexpo2.html
Time, Travel, Over Time, Gnawing

I was wrong about time travel, it is not possible… but before this is explored further, certain definitions need to be established just for clarity. Time is tricky stuff after all, and the in-built ambiguity of language also contributes to easily missing the many facets of the time conundrums.
Time Travel defined:
So let us first define what is meant by ‘time travel’. In this instance, what is meant is the ability of a human in the sense of body, mind and consciousness, leaving a point in time, hereafter labeled the Point of Temporal Origin (PTO), and then ‘arriving’ within a different temporal destination. In this definition, any movement in space is not considered as a key component of time travel, though it may certain occur as a side effect.

An example would be if our human subject, let’s call him George, whose Point of Temporal Origin (PTO) is the first month of the year 2010, was able to temporally relocate himself to a Temporal Destination (TD) of May, 1885. In this example, the totality of George, as body, mind, consciousness, et al, is relocated to the new temporal destination in 1885 and is also removed from his PTO of 2010. He would leave the year 2010 in a single instant, and the next period of experienced time would begin at some point in May of 1885. In order for it to be 'real' time travel according to this definition, all of George, including his consciousness connection to his physical form would be now existent in 1885, and no longer in 2010.

We note that the ‘direction’ chosen to ‘move’ in time is not pertinent to the definition of time travel. Therefore, for our example, George could just as easily choose to relocate to the year 2095 just as easily as 1885. So going into past or future is not a pertinent element to the idea of time travel.

The Einstein concept of ‘relative time travel’ which is to say the concept of our test subject George getting into a space ship and zooming off at very fast speeds moving toward the speed of light such that ‘time’ will become relative to George is not time travel as we define it here. After 10/ten years of elapsed time-experience in this space ship journey, George returns to Earth to find that 80/eighty years has actually past and he is therefore in the ‘future’. This, under our definition, is NOT time travel. This example is traveling in space in a manner which merely reduces the impact of the passage of time on consciousness. In this instance, our test subject George, actually still lives through the 80/eighty intervening years, but simply due to the speed of his journey though space, only a fraction of the ‘time’ is able to catch up with him, and therefore the body/mind/consciousness that is George experiences only a fraction of the time. In this case, this is not ‘time travel’. George still experiences time, albeit at a slower level, and has to travel in space to achieve the effect, and he cannot ‘return’ to his point of origin, nor to move outside of the time flow in any manner. All that relativity accomplishes is to reduce the level of the time experience on the body/mind that is George.

Travel in Space, outside of Time:
Yet another concept that needs to be defined as it has/is a corollary to time travel, is the idea of traveling in space, but outside of time. In this instance, the idea is that no time is involved, even though there may be very large movements in space for our hapless temporal test pilot George. This example would have George get into his space ship, and then to more or less instantly leave point of spatial origin, and then to more or less instantly arrive at the new spatial destination. In this example the travel is achieved without a large passage of time. Here George is able to benefit from relativity in that there is no (or extremely small) experienced passage of time, yet vast distances may be traversed. While not directly related to time travel, this space-travel-outside-of-time is a necessary concept for the discussion as it is the ‘opposite’ of time travel, and is a useful comparison in our thought experiments.

Continuous Creation model of universe defined:
I had previously brought up the idea of the central pulse coming from the middle of universe at the rate of 22/twenty-two trillion times a second. This pulse does not merely provide a synchronizing ‘beat’ for universe. Such an understanding is severely lacking. Rather this pulse IS universe in the very real sense of the pulse triggering creation.

As it happens, this pulse comes 22/twenty-two trillion times a second, and every time it occurs, the universe that consciousness experiences as the ‘material world or universe’ creates itself. That is the pulse comes out of the central point of universe and using no-time, travels instantly to the center of all galaxies, and through them to all other matter in universe down to the level of the perceived atomic solidity, and then each and every ‘atom’ within universe creates itself to the beat of the pulse.
We note a number of points about this idea. There are also 22/twenty-two trillion pauses each second, and these pauses allow for the existence of what physics calls ‘entropy’. Further it is the duality of pulse/pause that allows for all perceived movement, including the ‘perceived passage of time’. We note that it is the speed of creation (at the rate of 22/twenty-two trillion times a second), that tricks our minds and senses into perceiving reality as ‘solid’. Further, as our senses themselves, along with our bodies and minds, are participating in the continuous creation, it is nearly impossible to ‘see’ continuous creation as it occurs.
Within the continuous creation model of reality, it can be observed that what has been called the ‘indivisible unit’ or the ‘kalapa’ in past science, is what the modern academicians are spending all their time and money attempting to ‘see’ with their machinery. However as their model of reality has atoms as ‘solid’, they are of the opinion that multiple different types of sub atomic particles exist. In ‘reality’, there is only the Indivisible Unit which has (according to the yogic and taoist traditions) some 66/sixty-six thousand (66,000) aspects. So where the academicians see a ‘solid’ particle that they call a ‘quark’ or 'gluon' or 'meson'....et al, the mind informed about continuous creation observes that the scientists are actually seeing a small sub set of the 66/sixty-six thousand aspects and mistaking it for a ‘separate’ thing. So much for the Large Hadron Collider and any expected ‘real’ results.

In the continuous creation model of reality, all of what can be observed within the material universe is really a complex arrangement of standing waves or vibrations which are vibrating so fast as to trick those of us within material universe into perceiving it as solid. Part of this trick has to do with the apparent, or perceived passage of time. The perceived passage of time for those beings within universe is dependent upon the duality of the pulse and pause. Not only does the pause allow for entropy to exist, it also provides the perceived dynamism of ‘time’. It is worth noting here that the sensory supplied human (and other earth life form) minds are perceiving at the rate of about 30 to 60 frames (pulse/pause rate) per second, so it is little wonder that such minds are convinced that reality is solid.

Note: In the continuous creation model of reality, the pulse creates universe 22/twenty-two trillion times a second, while the pause allows for the complete destruction of all that has just been created. Movement in the rational mind cannot occur in material world without the duality of both continuous creation, and continuous destruction. In other words, for percieved movement of any and all kinds to occur in material universe, it is necessary that the 'matter' of material universe not be all that solid, and that gaps for destruction of all atoms and everything exist in 'time'.

Time defined:
Within the continuous creation model of reality, the definition of time becomes a bit simpler on the poor human mind. In fact, since reality is continuously destroying itself 22/twenty-two trillion times a second, it logically follows that the ‘past’ exists in only the space between a pulse and the following pause in which reality destroys itself. Thus ‘past time’ is now explained.

Of course, we note that humans, trapped as complex vibration fields (both dynamic and standing = yang/yin) in which our sensory organs, and perception abilities are limited to 30/thirty to 60/sixty pulse/pause per second, will perceive the ‘past time’ as somewhat longer due to the ‘lag time’ that is involved with our processing of our sensory perceptions. Make sense? So even our sensory organs down at the atomic and lower levels are destroying themselves 22/twenty-two trillion times a second, but because we life forms operate at so much slower a mental rate, we are not aware of our own continuous destruction, or continuous creation. Nor for that matter, the rest of material universe that we ‘think’ surrounds our corporal forms.

Continuous creation/destruction model of reality also necessarily reinforces the old yogic/taoist notion that there is ‘only one moment’, and to ‘live in the moment’. Clearly this is the ONLY thing possible as we are continuously being destroyed, along with reality, and thus no other moments, or time exist. There is only this moment. Again we note that a ‘moment’ IS longer that 22/twenty-two trillionth of a second, but again, this is a perceptive issue relative to our processing speed.

The continuous creation/destruction model of reality also, necessarily, proves that human consciousness is outside of ‘time’ and ‘material reality’ as we all ‘know’. However this model of reality demonstrates that consciousness must be independent of material reality as it would otherwise be ‘destroyed’ 22/twenty-two trillion times a second. This cannot be happening as there is a known, demonstrable continuity over ‘time’ or through the pulse/pause series. That we have consciousness persisting beyond a single burst pulse/pause event demonstrates that consciousness is outside of, and is not affected by, material reality. Further this establishes that consciousness is ‘immortal’ as it is not destroyed. It can also be noted that consciousness is also not affected by time. That is to say, while mental perceptions within life change and ‘age’, consciousness does not change. It is there until it separates from material reality at what we have labeled the point of death.

Within the yogic/taosist understanding of the continuous creation/destruction model of universe the totality of the 66,000 (sixty six thousand) aspects or kalapas are roughly divided into thirds. Each of these sets of about a third of these aspects are called a guana in Sanskrit. The yogic model has reality divided up into guanas of ‘period’, and ‘form/figure’, and ‘dynamism’. In the taoist model, the 66,000 aspects are divided into ‘time’, ‘figure’, and ‘movement’. Without respect to this division, both traditions also note that the ‘universal creation’ takes about half of all the aspects, and is spread evenly through all 3/three guanas. The other half of the aspects are for the ‘personal expression’ of the life within reality. It can be noted from both traditions that ‘time’ is a central component so key as to take up a third of the creation/destruction of reality.
Why Time Travel is not possible
Within the continuous creation and destruction model of reality, it is obvious that such concepts of a ‘river’ of time are nonsensical. Time does not exist, other than the now. In fact, this model of reality demonstrates that time does not exist except as the impact of ‘events’ or ‘movement’ upon the mental processes of life within material reality. Noting that ‘time’ is existent only as a perception by life within material reality, by extension it can be postulated that ‘time’, being a perception and not a ‘thing’, must have nuance, and differences in its state of perception. Stated another way, time is not a constant, but rather is a perception and therefore is affected by the mind doing the perceiving. Thus we have an easy explanation for why there are various ‘flavors’ of time-feeling, such that the human mind is aware of the differences between the experience of various ‘types’ of time, and invents words/concepts such as ‘karios’ to better communicate the idea.

So time is a perception, that is to say, it is subject to our personal experience of it and is therefore not a universal constant. This does not mean that such things as mechanistic forms of time, as in ‘chronos’ do not exist, but rather that such are merely required aspects of the total experience of time, and not a ‘thing’ in and of itself.

The simple answer as to why time travel is not possible has already been noted. Time does not exist, therefore to ‘travel’ in it is without real meaning. Time is a complex perception of the pulse/pause of continuous creation, which as noted, also brings along with it, continuous destruction. Thus the ‘past’ does not exist except as a construct within our experience, again, not an independent part of reality. Therefore travel to the past is not possible. After all, it is gone, 22/twenty-two trillion times a second it is destroyed. The only ‘time’ that exists is the now.

Conversely, it is not possible to travel to the future, as it also does not exist. The next ‘future’ point in time that will exist is 22/twenty-two trillionth of a second away from both creating and destroying itself. Again, the ‘future’ does not exist. Not only has it not happened yet….it will, in a very ‘real’ manner, never actually happen at all.

It can be seen from this description that the analogy of time as being ‘river’ like is totally misplaced, and that construct is the point from which the erroneous idea of time travel originates.

Future and past knowledge
While the continuous creation/destruction model of reality does not allow for traveling in time, it does allow for knowledge of both past and future within the present moment. Of course the mind can record and retain memories of past events in the continuous creation of time and reality, and thus have a knowledge of ‘past’ time.

Understanding how the corporal mind can have knowledge of the future is not so easily seen in the continuous creation/destruction model of universe. As the mind functions at such a low level of vibration relative (30 to 60 ‘frames’ of reality per second), and noting that there is NOT a solid thing in universe, including the perceiving human brain, and that all in universe is actually vibration, it can be noted that as reality creates itself, it will ALWAYS be creating itself ‘ahead’ of the mental abilities of those beings within material reality. Stated another way, since your mind is consuming time in cogitation about reality, it is doing so ‘behind’ the actual creation of the reality it contemplates. Therefore the mind doing the perceiving of reality is always operating behind the creation/destruction of reality, and so to speak, is operating as a memory, rather than a really instant expression of the now. Thus reality is ever so slightly ‘ahead’ in creating/destroying itself, and thus the ‘mind’ of those experiencing time, is vibrating at a slower level than the passage of time. Thus the lag time in mental processing means that the ‘future’ is being created now, while we are really perceiving the ‘now’ as memories. In this understanding then, and noting that our bodies and minds are actually standing and dynamic vibration fields, vibrating in sync with universe, it becomes understandable that as creation/destruction occurs, it will necessarily affect or impact some of the waves/fields that compose those of us experiencing time. Therefore, ever so slightly ‘ahead’ of our ability to process it, is knowledge of the future just created. This is one level of knowledge about the future, but continuous creation/destruction model allows for others.

To provide a crude example for greater clarity, consider the sun. It takes an apparent 8.56 minutes for light to travel from the sun and reach earth. IF the sun were to explode now, or turn green now, your senses would not pick up that information for 8.56 minutes. Thus, in a real sense, you would be dead or green for a full 8.56 minutes without realizing it.

However, for a more complete understanding of manifesting reality, we need to consider consciousness as well. Noting that consciousness is outside of, and is unaffected by time, we can postulate that the consciousness therefore is knowing about reality at an entirely different level than is perceived (or even perceivable?) within reality. It would therefore not be surprising if consciousness ‘knew everything’ about everything. It is extra-temporal, and is also ‘extra-reality’, in the sense that consciousness is outside of the continuous creation/destruction of reality. Therefore it likely knows all kinds of interesting things that it is simply not able, or willing to communicate to the mental processes that are within material reality. Nor should it. Likely the point of reality is the experiencing it as we do, and therefore too much ‘fore knowledge’ would put that experience at risk. Which is probably why the ‘uncertainty factor’ for all ‘future knowledge’ exists. This is to say that it is probably a necessary part of our mental sanity/process that uncertainty about the ‘future’ should exist until that ‘future’ manifests.



Over Time
There are all kinds of interesting corollaries to the continuous creation/destruction understanding of reality.

It should be noted that this model fully supports the Terrance McKenna idea of an eschaton, or world-time ending. The eschaton is actually a predictable effect of the continuous creation/destruction model. As reality creates and destroys itself, it does so to allow for dynamism or movement, or change. Change allows for the growth of complexity, as does the nature of the underlying vibration fields that actually is material reality. It is a predictable part of reality that complexity would increase over time. Further the increase in complexity should proceed predictably toward a crescendo point, in so far as mind is concerned. This crescendo is probably associated with an increase in complexity of the perception of time such that an eschaton will be reached. Thereafter the ‘what’ of reality is anyone’s guess.

The continuous creation/destruction model allows for travel in space without regard to time. Basically what happens is that the ‘location’ aspects for a body or being or device are ‘reset’ and then allowed to express themselves during the next pulse/pause period. Thus nearly, as far as mind is concerned, instant movement in space without experiencing the ‘time’ of the movement. At a very core level, such travel would occur outside of time, as it would happen at vibration levels beyond the ability for our mental processes to perceive. By the way, it can also be noted that such forms of travel would have an impact on the human body/mind that may have to be treated as a health issue. More on this in another discussion.

The continuous creation/destruction model also supports the inherent validity of the concepts within meditation. Through meditative training (which may also be possible from drugs/chemicals?), the mind to consciousness link can be altered, and perception at a higher level of vibration is therefore possible. Thus the validity of the martial arts saying of “the novice moves from his extremities, the adept from his torso, and the master moves from mind”. And it therefore becomes understandable that the process of mastery, possibly of any discipline, brings the aspirant to a higher level of vibration, and thus a higher level of contact with continuously creating reality, and a potential for greater understanding of both universe and themselves.

The continuous creation/destruction model also explicitly supports the ‘siddhis’ as they are defined within section 2 of the Science of Yoga. The ‘siddhis’ are extra-normal (as we think of the term) abilities which are gained as a human progresses through the yogic or taoist process. The siddhis include a wide range of abilities, including knowing about past and future, but not traveling there.

Conclusion:
So I was incorrect about time travel. It cannot happen in the continuous creation/destruction model of universe. Nor is the concept meaningful in the sense of the multiverse where the idea would be to travel to a different universe where the ‘when’ of things is different. There are issues here relating to the single point of connection between consciousness and any material body/mind in reality that would also prevent inter-universe travel within the multiverse, but that is left for another discussion.

I had been wrong about time travel due to not thinking through the issues involved with both time, and the nature of corporeal existence. It is just not feasible to ‘move’ continuous creation/destruction in ‘time’.

Well, this understanding now means (until proven wrong) that time travel is not possible and people professing to have been involved in successful time travel are either wrong or lying. Further, while I am sure that many time travel experiments will continue to take place, it seems unlikely in the extreme that any involving the shifting of life in time, are going to succeed.

This also means that the UFO issue of traveling without respect to time is very probably existent throughout this universe. The other, numerous logical conclusions within the continuous creation/destruction model are just waiting to be detailed. Many will relate to what is possible at greater levels of vibration awareness than the usual ‘single state’ experience of life within manifesting reality.

Addendum:
The idea of skepticism is one well worth hanging onto in these coming days and over this next year. The data sets from the SpaceGoatFarts entity had been filled with the notion that TPTB and their minions would be working over-time (LOL) to ‘poison’ the ‘truth movement’ with disinformation. It therefore is in the observers interest to maintain a healthy skepticism toward all ideas presented.

Noting that it is the sign of an educated mind to be able to hold, and model an idea without having to first accept it that basically defines skepticism. The concept is to model the offered information and deliberately seek flaws in its presentation and relation to reality that would prove its false. Then, if these are not found, it can be observed and modeled more closely with the idea that it MIGHT be part of manifesting reality and in that sense be ‘true’.

Noting that ‘true’ is the emotional response to a ‘fact’, it is understandable that many people ‘believe’ certain things to be ‘true’ without regard to the factual reality therein, or its lack. After all, they are merely 'feeling' an emotional response. The 'true' feeling does come through in their 'belief' in the information, but in no way validates the information as being factual.

The mark of an educated mind is its very skepticism when presented with new ‘information’. This is not a sign of negativity. This is a sign of a mature adult mind, attempting, as those yogi’s and taoists (The Complete Reality school of Taoism) of our past, to ‘know reality’ as it is manifesting. And to not get caught up in the fantasies and delusions of others. Noting that all of material reality is itself an illusion of the largest form, the educated mind struggles constantly to examine, model, and poke reality to determine what IS manifesting.

My bitch with the presenters, Project Camelot, is that they hypocritically state that their mission is to present the information that they are given by the whistleblowers and allow the viewer to make their own discernment as to its validity and reality. What Project Camelot is doing is expressed in many of the written parts of their site where they include references to ‘belief’. They repeatedly state that they (project camelot) believe that their source or whistleblower ‘believes’ their ‘testimony’, and therefore Project Camelot supports the position taken by that ‘whistleblower’.

I find their actions and proffered stance to be disingenuous. They are hypocritical at best, in that they are spending a lot of time and energy in defense of some of their ‘whistleblowers’ and the fantasies presented by them as ‘information’. That the defense of the whistleblower is being driven by personality is disturbing. Further this position has been promoting much disinformation. After all, with so many conflicts amongst their whistleblowers, not all of them can be correct.

Without taking their (Project Camelot) motives into account, and by that, I mean let us assume that they are not willing tools for disinformation, then they are at best unaware hypocrites to their own mission. Note that they NEVER defend the information itself, and rather are ALWAYS defending their sources based on personality, and not factual presentation (truth). Further, the apparent (by their actions) only criteria for them to consider someone a ‘whistleblower’ is that the person ‘believe’ their own story. All that is necessary for Project Camelot to consider someone a whistleblower and a 'true guy' is that the person present themselves such that Project Camelot 'feels' that the person believes what they are saying. Nope, no discrimination exercised. No cross checking, validation, nor even cursory background checks required at Project Camelot.

Hmmmm…so the delusional shall lead…just as is the case with the original Camelot (the whole "king" Aurthur story) which is a myth in support of the ‘divine right of kings to enslave humans’ meme. A despicable and evil meme if there ever was one….and it is all dependent on NOT being a skeptic, and simply swallowing whatever is offered on the spoon. That, for instance, someone claiming 'king ship' has 'authority' to enslave you. Hmmmm...let us all remember that the definition of 'royalty' of all kinds including 'priests' is "you work, I eat".

Thousands of years ago, the yogic and tao traditions realized that the way that the self sovereign individual needs to approach consciousness, mind, and manifesting reality is without filters and blinders. These people were good skeptics, and they have left us a whole pile of advice and methods for poking into universe to see what is actually there.

Being of the Complete Reality school of Taoism (aka science of Yoga) mind set, my approach is to gnaw on all incoming information and to deliberately seek out reasons why it is bogus. This is a very efficient method of operation as so much of what is presented these days IS bogus information, and therefore one can more quickly eliminate the bullshit, and have more time to locate what is actually manifesting. More time to actually touch reality…or get closer to that in any case.

If one takes the other approach, one spends all their time supporting bullshit delusions that others believe. And as a radical linguist I cannot pass by without noting that the word ‘believe’ itself merely means, by definition and derivation, “I wish this to be true”…..

So let the ‘synthetic beings’ come flying out of the Gulf of Aden Stargate….no, I mean it, seriously. Since if that is at all real, the skeptical mind will want details. And the skeptical mind will always follow the base dicta of life which includes: “ extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof” else they are as shit on my shoe, something to be scraped off and forgotten as it pollutes our understanding of manifesting reality. So to the good people (I am assuming) at Project Camelot (and elsewhere), be advised, if you present personalities who proffer extraordinary claims, you (they) had better provide extraordinary proof, or be prepared to have it all called BULLSHIT.
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PostFri May 07, 2010 9:12 am » by Cee420


elnorel wrote:Image

:banana:



Exactly .."time traveling" isn't real cause "time" is NOTHING physical ..we live an experience in the NOW-moment.
Only way we can "go" back in time ..is in our memories ..but physically it is impossible

"traveling to future" is just as impossible cause IT HASN'T BEEN CREATED YET!! ..the only real time where we live is the Now.

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PostFri May 07, 2010 10:53 am » by Svaha


Light does not move at all, space and time are connected, when I change time, I change space.
That's why time travel is possible.
Follow your bliss(ters) - Joseph Campbell

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PostFri May 07, 2010 11:00 am » by TheDuck


If everything is possible how can something be impossible. :D
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PostFri May 07, 2010 11:09 am » by Anrk0207


there is no such thing as time.

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PostFri May 07, 2010 11:32 am » by Pindz


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PostFri May 07, 2010 11:46 am » by Mediasorcerer


WRONG! OF COURSE ITS POSSIBLE,COS WE DO IT EVERY DAY!!! if you get in a car and drive,you get in it at one point in time,and get out of it at another point in time,hence you are time travelling,time is a construct of all energy,all matter,energy can be manipulated,so can matter,to what degree,depends on the technology,or understanding.
with the power of soul,anything is possible
with the power of you,anything that you wanna do

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PostSat May 08, 2010 9:16 pm » by Elnorel


All theories can be debated, concerning time.

I have yet to see proof which will undoubtedly prove once and for all the exact dynamics involving time travel.
SKEPTIC - One who instinctively or habitually doubts, questions, disagrees with assertions or generally accepted conclusions.
And tries to prove these assertions/claims with scientific facts.

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PostSat May 08, 2010 10:01 pm » by G3n3sis


It is true, light does not travel. The great polymath and Leonardo Da Vinci of the last century: Walter Russell proved that in his works: "The secret of Light" and his transformational study of "Universal Law, Natural Science and Living Philosophy". :think:
"The Sign of an Educated Mind is that, Which can Entertain a Notion or Idea Without Accepting it"


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