charashc wrote:99socks wrote:Is the Qur'an created? Please explain your conclusions.99socks wrote:Thanks Troll, but I did want to hear the fiqh argument about this.99socks wrote:No, I am trying to see if any Muslim knows the scholars' ruling on this? *I* know exactly what the scholars say, but I want to see if there are Muslims here who also know.
I don't know if this is scholars stance on the case, and I don't understand what "fiqh" means, but I know that where you wanna go socks is very dee eep.
First: Are we capable of understanding word eternity - no. I say, you can go very deep on this. Human was never able to invent the idea of eternal, and that's the thing people don't understand imho. Eternal is so simplified today, but in truth it's very complex.
If God is eternal, all-knowing, all-mighty, then he knew everything forever, so he knew Koran's every single word for all eternety. Once he sent Gabriel to recitate it to Mohammad, it came in dimension of our human understanding and observing things for the first time. Every "hard copy" of Koran is created if you are talking about pen and paper, but the text - the message itself was eternal. You can notice one other thing - if you are to destroy every copy of Koran to the last you wouldn't destroy the Holy Koran as there are tons of people today that can recitate Koran without single mistake in original language.
If my answer pleases you please let us know where are you aiming with this?
Yes charashc that is enough for us now. I had no intention of really going any "deeper" than that. Too bad though that no one could be bothered to really dig into the argument... To be continued then, in the other thread.
99socks wrote:I WAS... Converted when I was 17, became an apostate at age 27... I studied classical Arabic, fiqh and Qur'an recitation in Saudi Arabia, and came back to the US and studied Qur'an exegesis and taught fiqh...
ok, interesting...that explains why I never understood if you were muslim or not....living in Saudi Arabia -in that way- must have been an Experience...
Nice to know Sock, thanx
Otoel wrote:Everyone knows Mohamed made up the whole thing in order to unite a bunch of Palestinians and make wars... heck Islam literally translates to "Surrender".. its end goal is to turn everyone into a turban head, whether they have to spread and procreate all over the world or simply bomb areas with high density of infidels.
Religion will destroy the world.
yeh Otoel,l if only religions were more "religious" and less cultish corporations.
the story of life is quicker than the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello and goodbye, until we meet again my friend.
99socks wrote:Is the Qur'an created? Please explain your conclusions.
peace be upon you
-Holy Qur'an revealed to Prophet Muhammad
peace be upon him by the Messenger of
revelation Gabriel peace be upon him
In 23 years
Remember Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
the Holy Qur'an
And see the re-Qur'an recitations twice
before his death
The pinnacle of his friends, God bless them
Completed conservation and companions in the
life of the Holy Qur'an the Prophet Muhammad
peace be upon him
And completed companions conservation Holy
In the life of the Prophet Muhammad peace
be upon him
That the Almighty will take care of himself
save it from any distortion of the previous
divine books such as
Torah and the Gospels
God says in the Holy Qur'an
(9) Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an
and indeed, We will be its guardian
(42) Falsehood cannot approach it from before
it or from behind it; [it is] a revelation
from a [Lord who is] Wise and Praiseworthy
Blindness is not a blind eye
Blindness of the heart and stall
9. Verily, this Qur'an guides to that which is most just and right and gives glad tidings to the believers (in the Oneness of Allah and His Messenger, Muhammad , etc.). who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a great reward (Paradise).
57. O mankind! There has come to you a good advice from your Lord (i.e. the Qur'an, ordering all that is good and forbidding all that is evil), and a healing for that (disease of ignorance, doubt, hypocrisy and differences, etc.) in your breasts, - a guidance and a mercy (explaining lawful and unlawful things, etc.) for the believers.
Might is right, isn't it? When you are the victorious then you are speaking the truth even there are many faults in your speech right even you had great faults. But if you are failure your speeches are always false. Now the Muslims are the slave nation. They can not prove themselves to be right. So no need to argue. Just give your opinion. So, my opinion is, Qur'an is from the Perfect Allah.
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