You're living in a computer simulation, and math proves it

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PostThu May 26, 2011 2:54 pm » by Tjahzi


theoracle wrote:part 1 and 2 is back to front try this


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thanks! good stuff :flop:
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PostThu May 26, 2011 3:18 pm » by Theoracle


also this is very relavent to this thread tjahzi


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I love the part when the scientist ask do you understand and the interveiwer replys yes in witch he says no you dont nobody does lol
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PostThu Jun 16, 2011 1:39 pm » by Ssdz01


unitb166er wrote:Excellent Point 99socks.

And under both examples there would be a Consciousness operating for a purpose?

Creating a Creation for a Purpose that the creator cannot create itself?

An emergent Creation...?

:think:


There are some answers on these problems - see http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.3712

It is possible that some comments to the paper (and to this thread also) can be useful:

http://www.thescienceforum.com/1-0-25473t.php (the thread is spammed, so it's enough to read posting SSDZ – Guitarist - DrRocket), and

http://personalitycafe.com/science-tech ... roves.html

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PostThu Jun 16, 2011 1:52 pm » by Unitb166er


Thank you Ssdz01!

Is ``the theory of everything'' merely the ultimate ensemble theory?
Max Tegmark (Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton)
(Submitted on 3 Apr 1997 (v1), last revised 1 Dec 1998 (this version, v2))

We discuss some physical consequences of what might be called ``the ultimate ensemble theory'', where not only worlds corresponding to say different sets of initial data or different physical constants are considered equally real, but also worlds ruled by altogether different equations. The only postulate in this theory is that all structures that exist mathematically exist also physically, by which we mean that in those complex enough to contain self-aware substructures (SASs), these SASs will subjectively perceive themselves as existing in a physically ``real'' world. We find that it is far from clear that this simple theory, which has no free parameters whatsoever, is observationally ruled out. The predictions of the theory take the form of probability distributions for the outcome of experiments, which makes it testable. In addition, it may be possible to rule it out by comparing its a priori predictions for the observable attributes of nature (the particle masses, the dimensionality of spacetime, etc) with what is observed.

Comments: 29 pages, revised to match version published in Annals of Physics. The New Scientist article and color figures are available at this http URL or from max@ias.edu
Subjects: General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology (gr-qc)
Journal reference: Annals Phys.270:1-51,1998
DOI: 10.1006/aphy.1998.5855
Cite as: arXiv:gr-qc/9704009v2
Submission history
From: Max Tegmark [view email]
[v1] Thu, 3 Apr 1997 21:43:57 GMT (132kb)
[v2] Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:41:29 GMT (133kb)

Souce;http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9704009

To define if we are living in a Simulation,we must acquire models that articulate multiple simultaneous reality levels and interactions that can predict phenomena in our reality.
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PostFri Jun 17, 2011 12:37 pm » by Ssdz01


unitb166er wrote:Thank you Ssdz01!

Is ``the theory of everything'' merely the ultimate ensemble theory?
Max Tegmark (Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton)
(Submitted on 3 Apr 1997 (v1), last revised 1 Dec 1998 (this version, v2))

We discuss some physical consequences of what might be called ``the ultimate ensemble theory'', where not only worlds corresponding to say different sets of initial data or different physical constants are considered equally real, but also worlds ruled by altogether different equations. The only postulate in this theory is that all structures that exist mathematically exist also physically, by which we mean that in those complex enough to contain self-aware substructures (SASs), these SASs will subjectively perceive themselves as existing in a physically ``real'' world. We find that it is far from clear that this simple theory, which has no free parameters whatsoever, is observationally ruled out. ...
Journal reference: Annals Phys.270:1-51,1998
DOI: 10.1006/aphy.1998.5855
Souce;http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9704009

....To define if we are living in a Simulation,we must acquire models that articulate multiple simultaneous reality levels and interactions that can predict phenomena in our reality.



Yes, this Tegmark's paper resembles somehow on the paper "The Information as Absolute" (http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.3712 ), further "IasA". As well as the discussed here the Bostrom's one resembles , though the last is some science fiction, of course. As well as , e.g., the Margolus's 2003 "Looking at Nature as a Computer"and a lot of others.

Nevertheless, the papers are quite different. First of all - if Tegmark's paper (and tacitly any others) is grounded on the postulate " that all structures that exist mathematically exist also physically", i.e. is grounded on some belief, in the IasA the fact, that all that exist (and " that doesn't exist") exist in reality as some informational statements, is rigorously indeed proven. Every things are members of the fundamental absolutely infinite Set "Information", when this Set is very interesting mathematical object. It contains everything; in the Set everything have happened, at that - somethings happen and evolve - what we can observe, e.g., in our Universe; when for any other set its empty set is introduced by a special rule and is "outside" the set, the empty set for the Set is a member of the Set and (as any other member) contains full Set, etc., etc., etc.

The informational conception lets to put forward some physical model ( which resembles somehow on the Weizsacker's "Ur-theory") where, e.g., it becomes be possible to build the version of the special relativity theory (http://arxiv.org/abs/0812.2819 , http://arxiv.org/abs/0706.3979 ) which doesn't contain self- contradictions in contrast to the standard version.

Etc...

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PostFri Jun 17, 2011 2:41 pm » by Unitb166er


Then would you agree that Godel's Incompleteness Theorem would be the outer boundary for these Conceptional models multiplied by Cantors Infinite Sets Theory Structure?A sort of Prime Division between The Infinite Manifest and The Infinite Unmanifest ?

What do you think Ssdz01?
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PostFri Jun 17, 2011 3:06 pm » by Santaownsyou


99socks wrote:But why does it have to be "computer"? How about, we're in a physical simulation of the spiritual?


Because of the pixelation, As in a computer simulation matter is pixelated if you look small enough. Also in quantum mechanics matter only exists when it is observed.


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Start at 00:30 before that it is just a commercial for the show.
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PostFri Jun 17, 2011 3:20 pm » by Tertiusgaudens


Unit,

this is a nice and interesting post complex I very much enjoy...

Every math proof is dependent from axioms where all started. And we come again to beliefe systems. This is Gödel`s approach - the axiomatic structure of every math and every deductive mind system.

In this regard we must also find some clearance on what infinity means. The essence of infinity is not capable but structures of it, Math tools work with it. That is strange, but a real understanding is more than difficult.

Anyway. You may find mathematical proof of our "simulation status". You may also find nothing claiming all is real. What we know or not is at least not that important - you don`t really know why you see some things and why not. Why you believe some points and why not others.

This is one important reason the God thought always is vivid serving as everlasting concern, often an ultimate concern keeping you moving in what direction ever. This knowing and not knowing has both it`s season, and you really don`t know why and when.

And both answers are vivid too coming from your question whether we are a simulation - yes and no are both right in it`s frame and context according time, space anf ability you are in.

Take my greetings!
Hope is the thing with feathers...
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PostMon Jun 20, 2011 11:41 am » by Ssdz01


unitb166er wrote:Then would you agree that Godel's Incompleteness Theorem would be the outer boundary for these Conceptional models multiplied by Cantors Infinite Sets Theory Structure?A sort of Prime Division between The Infinite Manifest and The Infinite Unmanifest ?

What do you think Ssdz01?


- I’m a physicist, not a mathematician or a Rosicrucian and cannot answer more then as some common remarks.

As to “the Godel's Incompleteness Theorem” – it seems as rather reasonable, that this Theorem is some corollary from the fact that the Set “Information” is absolutely infinite (what is impossible in the standard set theory); it is possible that such a hypothesis will be proved sometimes.

As to “Infinite Manifest/ Unmanifest” – those conceptions indeed resemble somehow on the informational conception; though as well as the conceptions of “Tao”, “Shunia” (in Veda and Buddhism), etc., resemble also – there were a lot of people who intuitively (by going out the subset “usual humans’ Consciousness” in the subset “our Universe”) got such an information.

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PostMon Oct 10, 2011 11:12 am » by Ssdz01


Now a next paper relating to the informational conception appeared:
(Space and Time) http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.0003

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